Received: from localhost ([::1]:38349 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1YfbCd-0001Fm-7E; Tue, 07 Apr 2015 14:38:35 -0700 Received: from mail-qk0-f169.google.com ([209.85.220.169]:36494) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1YfbCW-0001FK-Sa for llg-members@lojban.org; Tue, 07 Apr 2015 14:38:33 -0700 Received: by qku63 with SMTP id 63so61779169qku.3 for ; Tue, 07 Apr 2015 14:38:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=sadfJzO3dlnB03n2CwN7UvnymrwYC1suS3r65PsfhFE=; b=Wtuq1FqhIROgIhlWeOeIuEF6meS6HEMnOIqSzFicxontQlFHKLCTM2kQXr9EAkkq60 WMlNDsyUGDYKq5dfPf5I3oZa6LlqvLuzAN5etabzM5+EJ52zzKq3QS05j8lKgOhKuRQl 4S9D/hwzk6WDSM/mNLDw1glq0IrBBeAa7mJGWNCYX76ItrcBvdrJGp/+YNnfP3NtuawL Ve6WWOGzB1Fg3LnpDDrdqx8HtiwbaA9kS1Dtswa6+CFqLXlvY8tqUIhAtY0/sJX16PE2 KHgfcWbJWHLfPkqviCe9rT2gEnQhqSg5z2WTmxeVBIeLzyrchtZ7lD1HuXJ+RVvbgQW/ o5CA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.55.55.75 with SMTP id e72mr43208937qka.30.1428442702369; Tue, 07 Apr 2015 14:38:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.140.86.211 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Apr 2015 14:38:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.140.86.211 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Apr 2015 14:38:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2015 22:38:22 +0100 Message-ID: From: And Rosta To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Detailed Proposal of a Project Manager X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8720135764080248640==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============8720135764080248640== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1149020cdb58d40513293b96 --001a1149020cdb58d40513293b96 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 LLG doesn't generate anything close to $250 per week, which is what it would take to pay the contractor for 25 hours per week at $10 per hour on an ongoing basis. Maybe instead we should work out what LLG could afford, which is, I take it, an amount no greater than the average weekly profit generated from CLL sales. What is the average weekly proxy from CLL sales? Do we know? I'm guessing not much more than $10? That would pay for an hour a week from the contractor. Would that be enough to accomplish anything useful? Had you thought the financial side of things through, Ali? Maybe I'm missing something -- certainly my reckoning is not based on any solid figures. And On 7 Apr 2015 18:46, "Ali Sajid Imami" wrote: > I honestly do not have an empirical basis for this, but the 25 hours I > suggested was based on the current and projected social media activity, and > the volume of chat in #lojban. I think 25 hours is probably the ceiling. > > Also, I had the US minimum wage in mind more than PK minimum wage. The > reasoning being the massive conversion gap: 1 USD is approximately 100 PKR. > So a US minimum wage ish thing, between $8 to $10 an hour. We need a > project manager, not a sweatshop worker. This would arguably be expensive > but we can honestly check the efficacy and see if it's worth it. Just as a > comparison, a laborer who has a job here makes more than $12.50. Somewhat > around $15. > > I think we can do a discussion about the hour estimation, and sign this > person on for a 3 month trial. If they work out, we sign them on for 9 more > months. And from that point on, we get the contract annually. > > Also, to answer your question, And, yes. The person is very quick in > picking up languages and would learn it in a matter of weeks if the > conversation keeps happening around her. As in, she doesn't know lojban yet > but is aware of the principles and is learning it slowly. > > > > Regards, > Ali Sajid Imami > CTO > Khabaristan Times > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 10:13 PM, And Rosta wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 4:05 PM, Ali Sajid Imami < >> ali.sajid.imami@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I already have a candidate in mind, someone I implicitly trust and have >>> worked with in similar situations. The willingness will be a huge plus, >>> although not necessarily a requirement. >>> >> >> Do you mean that your candidate would be willing to work in Lojban when >> their interlocutors prefer it? That's a big bonus. >> >> >> >>> >>> I'd calculate the position to be about 25 hours a week. With about 100 >>> hours a month should be fair. I think we can pay them off LLGs current >>> account, as a contractor. I know LLG can't have an employee but I think we >>> are allowed contractors. Something slightly above minimum wage for a person >>> in Pakistan would be more than enough for this position. >>> >> >> Is there really so much work of the sort you described, 1200 hours per >> year? I'd have guesstimated 200--400 hours per year, but with very little >> empirical basis for that. >> >> My googling suggests that the full-time PK minimum wage is $110 (USD) per >> month. On first-world-ish assumptions of a 37 hour week and a month of paid >> holiday, that's 147 hours per month. So the cost of 1200 hrs per year would >> be c $75 per month ($900 a year), and the cost of 200--400 hrs per year >> would be c $12.50--$25 per month ($150--$300 a year). Do those sums match >> what you had in mind? >> >> If so, what about, say, a trial, initially for a year, for $12.50 a month >> for an average of 16.7 hours a month? Make any necessary adjustments so >> that the rate of pay is not arseholey or unconscionably exploitative. If >> it's a roaring success and the funds are available, then it could be >> increased. >> >> --And. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Llg-members mailing list >> Llg-members@lojban.org >> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > > --001a1149020cdb58d40513293b96 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

LLG doesn't generate anything close to $250 per week, wh= ich is what it would take to pay the contractor for 25 hours per week at $1= 0 per hour on an ongoing basis. Maybe instead we should work out what LLG c= ould afford, which is, I take it, an amount no greater than the average wee= kly profit generated from CLL sales. What is the average weekly proxy from = CLL sales? Do we know? I'm guessing not much more than $10? That would = pay for an hour a week from the contractor. Would that be enough to accompl= ish anything useful?

Had you thought the financial side of things through, Ali? M= aybe I'm missing something -- certainly my reckoning is not based on an= y solid figures.

And

On 7 Apr 2015 18:46, "Ali Sajid Imami"= <ali.sajid.imami@gmail.com= > wrote:
I honestly do not have an empirical basis for this, but the= 25 hours I suggested was based on the current and projected social media a= ctivity, and the volume of chat in #lojban. I think 25 hours is probably th= e ceiling.

Also, I had the US minimum wage in mind more than PK mini= mum wage. The reasoning being the massive conversion gap: 1 USD is approxim= ately 100 PKR. So a US minimum wage ish thing, between $8 to $10 an hour. W= e need a project manager, not a sweatshop worker. This would arguably be ex= pensive but we can honestly check the efficacy and see if it's worth it= . Just as a comparison, a laborer who has a job here makes more than $12.50= . Somewhat around $15.

I think we can do a discussion about the hour= estimation, and sign this person on for a 3 month trial. If they work out,= we sign them on for 9 more months. And from that point on, we get the cont= ract annually.

Also, to answer your question, And, yes. The person i= s very quick in picking up languages and would learn it in a matter of week= s if the conversation keeps happening around her. As in, she doesn't kn= ow lojban yet but is aware of the principles and is learning it slowly.



Regards,
Ali S= ajid Imami
CTO
<= /div>
On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 10:13 PM, And Rosta <= span dir=3D"ltr"><and.rosta@gmail.com> wrote:


On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 4:05 PM, Ali Sajid Imami <ali= .sajid.imami@gmail.com> wrote:
= I already have a candidate in mind, someone I implicitly trust and have wor= ked with in similar situations. The willingness will be a huge plus, althou= gh not necessarily a requirement.

Do you mean that your candidate would be willing to work in L= ojban when their interlocutors prefer it? That's a big bonus.

=C2=A0

I'd = calculate the position to be about 25 hours a week. With about 100 hours a = month should be fair. I think we can pay them off LLGs current account, as = a contractor. I know LLG can't have an employee but I think we are allo= wed contractors. Something slightly above minimum wage for a person in Paki= stan would be more than enough for this position.=C2=A0

Is there really so much work of the sort yo= u described, 1200 hours per year? I'd have guesstimated 200--400 hours = per year, but with very little empirical basis for that.

My googling suggests that the full-time PK minimum wage is $110 (USD= ) per month. On first-world-ish assumptions of a 37 hour week and a month o= f paid holiday, that's 147 hours per month. So the cost of 1200 hrs per= year would be c $75 per month ($900 a year), and the cost of 200--400 hrs = per year would be c $12.50--$25 per month ($150--$300 a year). Do those sum= s match what you had in mind?=C2=A0

If so, what ab= out, say, a trial, initially for a year, for $12.50 a month for an average = of 16.7 hours a month? Make any necessary adjustments so that the rate of p= ay is not arseholey or unconscionably exploitative. If it's a roaring s= uccess and the funds are available, then it could be increased.
=

--And.

_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members



_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members

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