Received: from localhost ([::1]:34956 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1YiJfs-0008E5-Uc; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 02:32:01 -0700 Received: from mail-wi0-f170.google.com ([209.85.212.170]:36910) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1YiJfo-0008Dy-3y for llg-members@lojban.org; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 02:31:58 -0700 Received: by widdi4 with SMTP id di4so52893565wid.0 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 02:31:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=mVkI7WYIA+Z9e889j3Ul6YyndmdNb42G8baxyzWFGLw=; b=TUYUQkKW/cY74rsa1gommLrSllDdr6MDDicowoZPw5nEPvH2DxakyjM+KXZC1UOTl1 2swVewLJcQS+fNwDTtHr7erwI2auZdkzjoJE2QJVJbUgfHwMFCYpnpnuMe/r1H/Od+/w LduCwRkJBgK108DY5U80oC6AeyJFnlGxarjqwlcEDO4vWeashxUfpkUkgz/dgdylA+tG kXr6WpHrWwhpVp9n8fb96wCn7UQEbiTKTiEld2zGGttr7bHPgOs8MyaLUk2UUer8bpgM CFVNxtt9xIlXo04IhnyE9WoLY9go4h/X9hjScYMWMXE7bophHWJDIB8BGIdaGCDAhdFu JKJg== X-Received: by 10.180.74.198 with SMTP id w6mr40501647wiv.69.1429090309342; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 02:31:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.240.197 with HTTP; Wed, 15 Apr 2015 02:31:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5502321A.2050208@lojban.org> <551ADCFF.20709@lojban.org> <552CA608.50200@lojban.org> <552D0CC2.7080502@selpahi.de> <552DA91A.8090207@lojban.org> From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2015 12:31:28 +0300 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- Subject: Re: [Llg-members] New Business: other topics X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4830755262483068296==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============4830755262483068296== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043749a53d8c690513c004c7 --f46d043749a53d8c690513c004c7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 2015-04-15 12:13 GMT+03:00 guskant : > 2015-04-15 15:33 GMT+09:00 Gleki Arxokuna : > > > > 2015-04-15 5:46 GMT+03:00 guskant : > >> > >> I don't at all agree to la gleki's alternate idea that a > >> non-periodical news feed would be enough. > > > > > > Did I say non-periodical? > > I meant a website where a committee would publish high-quality papers > with > > finished solutions (that are of course still can be discussed further). > So > > sa'unai you said this: > > 2015-04-01 3:01 GMT+09:00 Gleki Arxokuna : > > Looks like magazines are declining in their popularity in general. That > can > > explain why people aren't very interested in them. > > These days people are more used to short pieces of information, not > lengthy > > magazines or books. > > An appropriate format is to be found, maybe something like a newsfeed > where > > you get new articles one by one, not complete issues. or just a blog > where > > you can subscribe only to articles marked with certain tags and where > > articles are premoderated thus preventing mailing list rants and mess of > > unsolved issues. Thus in such a newsfeed you will get a stream of high > > quality articles with final (not initial) opinions of proficient > Lojbanists. > > > > My suggestion was "a periodical, maybe annual" and did not mention the > length > of each article. As you didn't agree, I thought you meant a news feed that > reads occasional posts on variety of websites like forums or blogs. > Occasional can be made = once every 12 months strictly. Admins decide. > > > > it'd rather be a magazine, yes. I just don't know how it could be > > implemented technically. Maybe just add wiki pages that can't be edited > by > > non-admins, with links to mailing list threads where they can be further > > discussed, with tags (categories) so that they can be easily sorted out, > > with "Share" links to social networks. Creating physical paper issues > out of > > them wouldn't be a serious problem of course. > > > > Do you have accounts of closed social networks like QQ in PRC, > Niconico or LINE in Japan? Most activities of PRC are executed on QQ. > If you are interested in Share buttons then I don't think the solution is in anyway different from Facebook or Twitter: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16967666/how-to-create-a-tencent-weibo-qq-share-button As for Niconico and LINE, I don't have acconts with them because I > hate closed Japanese societies, generally. It is difficult to get in > touch with those closed ones automatically with informatic > technologies. I can see that LINE is an instant messenger thus I don't see any possibilities to share posts there EXCEPT just ... pasting links to e.g. wiki pages in the groups where you chat. As far as I understand groups there can be only private. We need to make contact with those people, and draw > directly from them information about their fruits and needs. > > Even if you get somehow information automatically from those > communities, do you think a machine translator would give us > understandable texts in Lojban or in English enough to be inserted > into a magazine? I don't think so. I prefer that people should express > their fruits and needs with their own words in their language and in > Lojban. > How is machine translation relevant here? I proposed just writing articles by humans, adding them to wiki pages that only admins can edit. Every such wiki page will have 1. a link to the google group or an e-mail address to lojban@googlegroups.com where one can ask question on a given article. 2. Links to share the page to Facebook, Weibo, etc. Of course some people can't use not even Google Groups but even e-mail (since the latter is also a tool declining in its popularity). One can imagine adding "Discuss" extension to MediaWiki but again logging in to MediaWiki is currently not supported for major social networks. Maybe another blogging engine can be imagined. The requirement is: Being able to login from Facebook, Twitter, VK.com, Weibo, QQ in order to comment on every article and/or reply to others. I'm not aware of such tool atm. And, of course, it will also mean splitting activity once again (we already have groups in Facebook, Reddit, VK, google groups, G+, Twitter ...) > > mu'o > > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > --f46d043749a53d8c690513c004c7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2015-04-15 12:13 GMT+03:00 guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com><= /span>:
2015-04-15 15:33 GMT+09:00 Gle= ki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.n= ame@gmail.com>:
>
> 2015-04-15 5:46 GMT+03:00 guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com>:
>>
>> I don't at all agree to la gleki's alternate idea that a >> non-periodical news feed would be enough.
>
>
> Did I say non-periodical?
> I meant a website where a committee would publish high-quality papers = with
> finished solutions (that are of course still can be discussed further)= . So

sa'unai you said this:

2015-04-01 3:01 GMT+09:00 Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>:
> Looks like magazines are declining in their popularity in general. Tha= t can
> explain why people aren't very interested in them.
> These days people are more used to short piece= s of information, not lengthy
> magazines or books.
> An appropriate format is to be found, maybe something like a newsfeed = where
> you get new articles one by one, not complete issues. or just a blog w= here
> you can subscribe only to articles marked with certain tags and where<= br> > articles are premoderated thus preventing mailing list rants and mess = of
> unsolved issues. Thus in such a newsfeed you will get a stream of high=
> quality articles with final (not initial) opinions of proficient Lojba= nists.
>

My suggestion was "a periodical, maybe annual" and did not= mention the length
of each article. As you didn't agree, I thought you meant a news feed t= hat
reads occasional posts on variety of websites like forums or blogs.

Occasional can be made =3D once every 12 month= s strictly. Admins decide.
=C2=A0


> it'd rather be a magazine, yes. I just don't know how it could= be
> implemented technically. Maybe just add wiki pages that can't be e= dited by
> non-admins, with links to mailing list threads where they can be furth= er
> discussed, with tags (categories) so that they can be easily sorted ou= t,
> with "Share" links to social networks. Creating physical pap= er issues out of
> them wouldn't be a serious problem of course.
>

Do you have accounts of closed social networks like QQ in PRC,
Niconico or LINE in Japan? Most activities of PRC are executed on QQ.

If you are interested in Share buttons then = I don't think the solution is in anyway different from Facebook or Twit= ter:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16967= 666/how-to-create-a-tencent-weibo-qq-share-button

As for Niconico and LINE, I don't have acconts with them because I
hate closed Japanese societies, generally. It is difficult to get in
touch with those closed ones automatically with informatic
technologies.

I can see that LINE is an ins= tant messenger thus I don't see any possibilities to share posts there = EXCEPT just ... pasting links to e.g. wiki pages in the groups where you ch= at.
As far as I understand groups there can be only private.

We need to make contact with those people= , and draw
directly from them information about their fruits and needs.

Even if you get somehow information automatically from those
communities, do you think a machine translator would give us
understandable texts in Lojban or in English enough to be inserted
into a magazine? I don't think so. I prefer that people should express<= br> their fruits and needs with their own words in their language and in
Lojban.

How is machine translation rele= vant here?
I proposed just writing articles by humans, adding the= m to wiki pages that only admins can edit. Every such wiki page will have
1. a link to the google group or an e-mail address to lojban@googlegroups.com where one can as= k question on a given article.
2. Links to share the page to Face= book, Weibo, etc.

Of course some people can't = use not even Google Groups but even e-mail (since the latter is also a tool= declining in its popularity).

One can imagine add= ing "Discuss" extension to MediaWiki but again logging in to Medi= aWiki is currently not supported for major social networks.

<= /div>
Maybe another blogging engine can be imagined. The requirement is= :

Being able to login from Facebook, Twitter, VK.c= om, Weibo, QQ in order to comment on every article and/or reply to others.<= /div>

I'm not aware of such tool atm. And, of course= , it will also mean splitting activity once again (we already have groups i= n Facebook, Reddit, VK, google groups, G+, Twitter ...)

mu'o

_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members

--f46d043749a53d8c690513c004c7-- --===============4830755262483068296== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Llg-members mailing list Llg-members@lojban.org http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members --===============4830755262483068296==--