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From: guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 12:01:44 +0000
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2015-12-17 7:00 GMT+00:00 Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>:
>
>
> 2015-12-17 6:26 GMT+03:00 guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com>:
>>
>> 1. Gleki suggested the creator of Lojban version of the brower Vivaldi
>> to use an experimental cmavo "la'oi" without warning of
>> "experimental".
>
>
> I don't know where you got this information from. It is at least phrased
> incorrectly.
> It is not related to me. Simply the localization string doesn't allow for
> using {la'o zoi ... zoi}. The localization string is simply "Search", not
> "Search %1".
> You can join Transifex Vivaldi team and see it yourself. It's just not
> possible to insert {zoi} AFTER the name of the search engine.
> I'm not going to ask the developers to change that because it's more likely
> that they remove Lojban at all rather than adopt our change.
>

You said on the main list:

2015-03-16 16:42 GMT+00:00 la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>:
> Vivaldi is a new web browser that is right now at the stage of alpha
> testing.
>
> You may install it as your second browser and try Lojban localization.
> https://vivaldi.net/en-US/blogs/teamblog/item/15-weekly-snapshot-1-0-129-2
>
> Select Lojban while installing or do that after the installation in
> "Settings".
> You should take into account the following considerations:
>
> * the translation hasn't been tested yet
> * while translating I tried not to use new words where possible and where I
> couldn't I resorted to zi'evla/fu'ivla but not lujvo since jvajvo/cimjvo and
> lujvo place structure rants impede Lojban development.
>

Isn't it mean that you translated the search engine into {la'oi} clause?
If it is technically difficult to add {zoi}, you could chose not to
translate it.


>
>> 2. Gleki removed the words "culturally neutral" from the top page of
>> Lojban website.
>
>
> Indeed, I periodically get some negative feedback or questions and when no
> one seem to answer them I remove corresponding strings.
> This has happened to the Wikipedia article where I removed or commented out
> everything that was not supported by any sources (on the other hand I added
> many more previously absent concepts they *were* supported by sources).
> This sometimes happens to the front page. I'm just trying apply the same
> policy as exists for Wikipedia in general.
>
>
> So for this particular issue I suggest using BPFK to solve it. I'm curious
> myself how is Lojban culturaly neutral when it creates its own culture and
> when historically it was a culturally non neutral Eaton's list representing
> a subset of Standard Average European Sprachbund.
>


You could suggest it on byfy list before removing the words, but you didn't.
Don't you anticipate some of your devoting activities could be taken
as self-righteous?


>> 3. Gleki advertised some derivations of Lojban as "Lojban", while he
>> did some other derivations that are unpleasant to him as "non-Lojban".
>
>
> Well, not sure what you mean but what has been advertised as Lojban, which
> in reality is not?
> I'm writing some tutorials and the only source and feedback for them is YOU,
> Lojbanic community.
> Of course when two conflicting opinions clash I have either to avoid them or
> to merge them into one or to choose one of them.
>
> I have too few my own opinions to advertise them as my own. I'm just not
> interested in supporting any opinions. My main goal is a learnable usable
> language no matter what that language is. I mostly ask questions, pack them
> into articles or parts of textbooks and wait for feedback.
>
> Of course, the result can be that some reply "Why did you choose others'
> opinion, not my?"
> If you have some questions you are free to ask them, to propose solutions
> like many other people have already done.
>
> I'M NOT TO ADVERTISE OR PROMOTE ANY STILL PROJECTS.
> But I'm to promote constantly self-updating urls.
> If you provide feedback then these urls will change after your proposals and
> suggestions.
>
>

You advertise your Crash Course and La Bangu as Lojban to every new
learner on IRC, twitter, facebook, and so on, often using the
lojban.org account, with which you can pretend that your declaration
were official, while you declare about my series of experimental
parsers that "ja'o lo guskanbau cu banzu frica lo jbobau". The
contents of your course don't include your own opinions, but it is you
who selected the unofficial features to be taught in it. I don't think
a course could include all the conflict unofficial features, and I
don't demand you to stop your selection. I pointed out only your
unfairness of treating various derivations from official Lojban.


>>
>>
>> (As for 2, I don't think either that Lojban _is_ culturally neutral, but
>> at
>> least we could aim at it as an ideal, and the words are still worth
>> mentioning on the top
>> page.)
>
>
> So that's not about Lojban but about some trend in its lexicon or grammar?
> That might be worth adding provided that  a corresponding article about this
> trend exists. Otherwise people start to think (not without any ground) that
> Lojbanic community is lying.


As I wrote above, you could post it on a list before removing it, but
you didn't.

mu'o mi'e la guskant

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