Received: from localhost ([::1]:40071 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1aEe9R-0005PE-OL; Thu, 31 Dec 2015 06:24:25 -0800 Received: from earth.ccil.org ([192.190.237.11]:36204) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1aEe9K-0005OQ-Kh for llg-members@lojban.org; Thu, 31 Dec 2015 06:24:24 -0800 Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1aEe9I-0006cL-TY for llg-members@lojban.org; Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:24:16 -0500 Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:24:16 -0500 From: John Cowan To: llg-members@lojban.org Message-ID: <20151231142416.GB20974@mercury.ccil.org> References: <563CBDA4.5080308@selpahi.de> <9AC7ACDB-A395-4564-8340-20876DAB07CA@gmail.com> <8417352.OZs0BEeQn5@caracal> <20151231133103.GA20974@mercury.ccil.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - Subject: Re: [Llg-members] "Modal" X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org And Rosta scripsit: > I think "controversial" is inapposite. Grammatical analysis is > susceptible to gratuitous irrational conservatism. Only due to > gratuitous irrational conservatism is the traditional analysis of the > particles cleaved to still. I quite agree with you, of course. But doubtless our opponents would say we are engaging in gratuitous irrational conflation of necessary categories. As Turing said: A is liable to believe "A thinks but B does not" whilst B believes "B thinks but A does not." instead of arguing continually over this point it is usual to have the polite convention that everyone thinks. by which Turing meant "is conscious", but I mean "is rational". As Nozick said, instead of trying to prove your opponent wrong, try to understand in what sense he is right. > One sort of grammatical analysis is guided by taste and tradition; > another sort is guided by reason. The controversy exists only between > these two, not within the latter. I take controversy to be a matter of fact. If I proclaim the world is round and a great many persons publicly denounce this view, it is factual to say the claim of the world's rotundity is controversial, even though it is true that the world is round and not flat. > This is not to say that I think Lojban's "modal" should be replaced by > "preposition", tho it should certainly be replaced by something. I'd favour > a Lojban term. In hindsight I agree. -- John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org How they ever reached any conclusion at all is starkly unknowable to the human mind. --"Backstage Lensman", Randall Garrett _______________________________________________ Llg-members mailing list Llg-members@lojban.org http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members