Received: from localhost ([::1]:45096 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1aZ5rz-000875-Lj; Thu, 25 Feb 2016 16:02:55 -0800 Received: from mail-ig0-f170.google.com ([209.85.213.170]:34472) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1aZ5rx-000867-08 for llg-members@lojban.org; Thu, 25 Feb 2016 16:02:53 -0800 Received: by mail-ig0-f170.google.com with SMTP id g6so27206012igt.1 for ; Thu, 25 Feb 2016 16:02:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=iM2z9EsFvgaf+UoCuW1ok8rKO8AXaHDK1mj0t9nNvEk=; b=GopQ9gbk2IX5s+OhXIOpOLKt3cPnS24FWQuwnAYKOpj/ryX1e2r5lphjTGWG6jzFlE rJIw3Ycp7DAtVAkGuQIttnVlzDl3Ox9w8wsqz4zWAEkS/WQh6d8ptPPS4mxI5GKeZFu2 9sMId79maT8qlWnJpE4gVKAU3QJBA/GXdQm/YaGvZz4NPNtbPQUMRbUjWv+2UF4GndE4 rW40/HaL1NgLahXsD1Y4FYUJfcWZtV97iBSSlm0SLiIbLdS5MnUM8/17BwTlip08WH8K WFitIEjpGNL3mRxhc3G1r2fgY9stzNgNmdzx2pLmtjx/3rNESZYrJa8V10WISOjEavEj HlPw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=iM2z9EsFvgaf+UoCuW1ok8rKO8AXaHDK1mj0t9nNvEk=; b=cwabk+uBCYA5n7PiCN3FAUkNTO4uiD9yFZ+4p1pF7m06y6rNLRf4tz/k9kAY0NQfqQ yux4IZgED+5vhg4c05EmWAGlacgD90AVVYwIucHMu4+FyMSSs5sJFeu65Sa93z+nqOn5 IC951UZMTZdQmZrLPEtgHL8Ebrbo8tlzmqwejmYR+htFpRmBn6PVpVtKSgIo44IruR4O NcWH/Kmd2/dOqqH9Kdu3mqrxmT9bFOuSCoYneLqRYkzQ2rZ9nhzZop0Pq6fVozfwtaIg 7X84rFndq08L7XzdbTlpuMdA+sgSmR9aKtZ2Wc9xH8zL12MMGIjPrhEFENOmLUuaIqzg 79sA== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJJkOA56/7Mhat8t9w6QV56FQ1gaQ9xfbCKSJ7gRc11s+LQBdcgcx5Xefo5VaOHWhSm2qmEfYM4AUL1WRA== X-Received: by 10.50.64.178 with SMTP id p18mr36399igs.55.1456444966849; Thu, 25 Feb 2016 16:02:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.79.26.131 with HTTP; Thu, 25 Feb 2016 16:02:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <56CF4028.70700@lojban.org> References: <563CBDA4.5080308@selpahi.de> <9AC7ACDB-A395-4564-8340-20876DAB07CA@gmail.com> <56CC9C72.4040908@lojban.org> <56CF4028.70700@lojban.org> From: Alex Burka Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2016 19:02:27 -0500 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_bar: - Subject: Re: [Llg-members] 2015 Annual Meeting - response to discussion X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4028044967742425907==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============4028044967742425907== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bd75c3ae253bc052ca10472 --047d7bd75c3ae253bc052ca10472 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Bob, with respect, you aren't the byfy jatna currently. And the BPFK is not currently functioning as a bureaucracy where the jatna directs everyone's activities. It is an independent entity from the LLG for a reason. People don't work on Lojban as a full-time job, which means time and motivation are scarce resources. When we bicker about what everyone should be working on, we don't get anything done. If folks are motivated to work on the content of a future edition of the CLL, they should do that. Editing a draft is in no way equivalent to an official change! A work-in-progress is hosted on Github, which means there is always a trail of who changed what and when, for us to use when we go about officially approving things. It's on Github because the people who have been working on CLL 1.1 and 2.0 found it convenient (and achieved results, I might add). If anyone wants to contribute but has trouble with Github, I encourage them to ask for help. - mu'o mi'e la durkavore On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Bob LeChevalier wrote: > On 2/23/2016 1:10 PM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > >> 2016-02-23 20:52 GMT+03:00 Bob LeChevalier > >: >> >> As to the discussion of what LLG should be doing (which I stayed out >> of), I will try to be brief. >> >> IMO, no one should be working on CLL 2.0 at this time (unless the >> bpfk jatna has chosen to do so as a means of moving byfy work along). >> >> >> I would add that everyone is free and even advised to fork >> https://github.com/lojban/cll/tree/docbook-prince-cll-2.0 branch on >> github and continue working on these branches. >> >> Of course, they are all unofficial but since it's a lot of work when LLG >> or BPFK or other entities decide to apply something officially they >> might need your work. >> > > .oi This is not a useful email. > > The average person has no idea how to do anything on github.com, which is > just a random website name to me. I vaguely recognize "docbook" and > "prince" as words that Robin has used in talking about the CLL publishing > effort, but I know nothing more than that (and probably don't want to). > > I have no idea why I would fork that address, or what that would > accomplish. Since most of us have no and aren't involved in publishing > CLL, we would (and should) have no clue how to "continue working" on > something that is hopefully almost done. > > If you are referring to some version of CLL after Robin's version, you > seem to have ignored what I just posted that you responded to - that no one > should be working on them in the absence of some direction by the byfy > jatna. Otherwise what "work" could meaningfully be done, since a change to > CLL reflects an official change to the language specification, which can > only be done byfy. > > I suspect that a lot more would be done by new people if people who post > stuff like this would presume that most people who will read it have no > idea what is being talked about, and thus include some general context and > maybe a few links that explain what is being done, by whom, and why someone > might want to get involved. > > -------- > > In any event, I posted on the members list as part of the meeting, as a > response to discussion about goals for LLG as an organization. Specific > discussions about what to do (on github or elsewhere) and how to do it > should be moved to the main list, so the meeting can try to focus on making > decisions. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > --047d7bd75c3ae253bc052ca10472 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bob, with respect, you aren't the byfy jatna currently= . And the BPFK is not currently functioning as a bureaucracy where the jatn= a directs everyone's activities. It is an independent entity from the L= LG for a reason.

People don't work on Lojban as a fu= ll-time job, which means time and motivation are scarce resources. When we = bicker about what everyone should be working on, we don't get anything = done. If folks are motivated to work on the content of a future edition of = the CLL, they should do that. Editing a draft is in no way equivalent to an= official change!

A work-in-progress is hosted on = Github, which means there is always a trail of who changed what and when, f= or us to use when we go about officially approving things. It's on Gith= ub because the people who have been working on CLL 1.1 and 2.0 found it con= venient (and achieved results, I might add). If anyone wants to contribute = but has trouble with Github, I encourage them to ask for help.
- mu'o mi'e la durkavore

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 12:55 PM, B= ob LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
On 2/23/2016 1:10 PM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote= :
2016-02-23 20:52 GMT+03:00 Bob LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org
 <mailto:lojbab@lo= jban.org>>:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 As to the discussion of what LLG should be doing (which I sta= yed out
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 of), I will try to be brief.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 IMO, no one should be working on CLL 2.0 at this time (unless= the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 bpfk jatna has chosen to do so as a means of moving byfy work= along).


 I would add that everyone is free and even advised to fork
https://github.com/lojban/cll/tree/docboo= k-prince-cll-2.0 branch on
github and continue working on these branches.

Of course, they are all unofficial but since it's a lot of work when LL= G
or BPFK or other entities decide to apply something officially they
might need your work.

.oi This is not a useful email.

The average person has no idea how to do anything on github.com, which is just = a random website name to me.=C2=A0 I vaguely recognize "docbook" = and "prince" as words that Robin has used in talking about the CL= L publishing effort, but I know nothing more than that (and probably don= 9;t want to).

I have no idea why I would fork that address, or what that would accomplish= .=C2=A0 Since most of us have no and aren't involved in publishing CLL,= we would (and should) have no clue how to "continue working" on = something that is hopefully almost done.

If you are referring to some version of CLL after Robin's version, you = seem to have ignored what I just posted that you responded to - that no one= should be working on them in the absence of some direction by the byfy jat= na.=C2=A0 Otherwise what "work" could meaningfully be done, since= a change to CLL reflects an official change to the language specification,= which can only be done byfy.

I suspect that a lot more would be done by new people if people who post st= uff like this would presume that most people who will read it have no idea = what is being talked about, and thus include some general context and maybe= a few links that explain what is being done, by whom, and why someone migh= t want to get involved.

--------

In any event, I posted on the members list as part of the meeting, as a res= ponse to discussion about goals for LLG as an organization.=C2=A0 Specific = discussions about what to do (on github or elsewhere) and how to do it shou= ld be moved to the main list, so the meeting can try to focus on making dec= isions.



_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-membe= rs

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