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From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 12:35:30 +0300
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Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Demand for depriving Gleki of his
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2016-02-27 11:02 GMT+03:00 guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com>:

> Introduction.
>
> Dear LLG members,
>
> This is an open letter of my simple demand. The identical contents are
> published at http://guskant.github.io/lojbo/open_letter/ . The URL is
> posted also to the lojban mailing list.
> Gleki is an administrator of the official website [1]. Gleki put
> useful tools on the official website, and also created a Lojban course
> for beginners. In the course, Gleki taught some unofficial features
> with notice of "unofficial". That is not a crime.
>
> Gleki let the learners use the tools that he put on the official
> website. That is not a crime.
>
> Gleki did not make clear the responsible person of the tools. That is a
> crime.
>
> Gleki called the contents of his course as "modern dialects of Lojban"
> [2], while Gleki called my parser Zantufa as "different from Lojban"
> [3]. That made my life as a Lojbanic artist difficult but is not a
> crime.
>
> Gleki advertised his course using official-pretending accounts of
> Twitter [4] or email [5]. That activity combined with his terms of
> abuse on my parser Zantufa [3] removed my life as a Lojbanic artist
> and is a crime.
>
> I don't demand to stop any critics on my works including Zantufa.
> Actually, Durka42 published much more terms of abuse on my parser
> Zantufa than Gleki did, and Tsani also joined Durka42. Although I
> qualified them "despicable" [6], I don't demand them to stop their
> "critics" on my works. Anyone has freedom to be despicable to me.
>
> However, I herewith make a complaint against Gleki for abusing his
> administratorship on the official website and for his
> official-pretending Twitter account [4] and e-mail account [5]. I
> demand depriving Gleki of his administratorship on the official
> website and of official-pretending accounts [4][5]. The tools put on
> the official website by Gleki should be moved to Gleki's own website
> other than lojban.org, or kept on the official website and maintained
> by a new administrator other than Gleki with clear mentioning about
> the responsible person of the tools.
>
> Details of Gleki's crimes.
>
> Gleki advertised his course and his tools using official-pretending
> accounts. That activity makes people believe that Gleki's contents
> were admitted by the official body as "modern dialects of Lojban".
> That activity combined with his terms of abuse on my parser Zantufa
> produces totalitarism of letting people believe that some unofficial
> suggestions are modern dialects of Lojban and my parser Zantufa is
> non-Lojban. That totalitarism removes my life as a Lojbanic artist
> because all my recent and future Lojbanic artworks are parsed by
> Zantufa. I regard that activity of Gleki as an appearance of Gleki's
> dictatorship on Lojban community.
>
> Gleki put tools that may help Lojban speakers on the official website
> without any explicit notice about the responsible person of the tools
> themselves. For example, the ilmentufa parsers on the official website
> [7] were commonly announced on mediawiki pages of the official website
> [1], as well as in other communities, that they are parsers for the
> official grammar and for an experimental grammar respectively. Those
> parsers contain no information about the responsible person for the
> contents themselves. Some people may believe that the contents were
> identical to those of one of ilmen's or Lojban coder's group's github
> repositories[8] [9].
>
> The reality [10] is however that the contents on the official website
> [1] are identical neither to ilmen's, nor to lojban coder's group's,
> but to gleki's personal folder on the vrici server of lojban.org [11]
> and also to gleki's github repository [12].
>
> The fact that Gleki controls the contents on the official website [1]
> is problematic because Gleki does not have ability to distinguish
> official from personal. Gleki don't understand all his activities are
> not admitted by the official body, regardless of whether the
> activities are good or not for Lojban community. The evidences for
> that are shown below.
>
> Evidence 1.
>
> Gleki removed the expression of "culturally neutral", the official
> words of CLL Chapter 1 Section 1, from the top page of the official
> website [1] without any notice to the official body. He explained the
> reason: "I periodically get some negative feedback or questions and
> when no one seem to answer them I remove corresponding strings." [13]
> That response is one of the evidence that Gleki does not have ability
> to distinguish official from personal: Gleki modified the contents of
> the official website freely as if it were his own website. Gleki
> removed even the official words from the top page of the official
> website for the reason of "some negative feedback" that are unknown to
> the official body.
>
> Evidence 2.
>
> Gleki is creating many pages on his original research without
> mentioning "unofficial contents" or "Gleki's personal page" [14].
> There is no notice about the responsibility of the contents. The
> history of modifications to the pages is visible only to logged-in
> accounts, and general visitors cannot identify whether the contents
> are supported by the official body or not [15]. Although it is true
> that LLG-related pages are tagged with "An official page of LLG", that
> does not imply that pages with no tag are officially unsupported. When
> even the top page is not tagged with "official", who can imagine that
> the official website is almost filled with Gleki's original research,
> and only a few pages tagged with "official" are really official?
> Whether Gleki's original research is good or not is not my subject.
> Gleki created many contents of his original research on the official
> website without mentioning the responsibility of the contents, and
> that is one of the evidence that Gleki does not have ability to
> distinguish official from personal. My demand is simple: tag them with
> "Gleki's original research/opinion/...", or move them all to Gleki's
> own website.
>
> Evidence 3.
>
> When I made a remark on Gleki's conceilment of his previous version of
> his course, he responded: "Because it's not egocentric and on the
> contrary altruistic. What can even be egocentric in an activity for
> which personally I gain nothing."[16]
>
> Actually, Gleki had been revising in keeping the history of pages [17]
> [2], but he removed the whole history after my posts to mailing lists
> of blaming for his various activities of abusing his administratorship
> and using official-pretending accounts. He did not take my remarks as
> evidences of his crimes, but he treated the remarks as if they were
> feedback to his contents. That is one of the evidence that Gleki does
> not have ability to distinguish official from personal: Gleki
> completely disregarded my remarks about his confusion of official with
> personal, and treated them as if feedback to his personal contents.
>
> Evidence 4.
>
> Gleki said "I'm intolerant to everything beyond CLL. Even my
> unofficial parsers are merely a playtoy, a tool to study Lojban, not
> to break it. Changing Lojban is breaking its community which already
> happened once in 2004." [18]
>
> That comment of Gleki contradicts what he wrote on another page. Gleki
> actually "carefully selects new rules and lexicon being introduced
> into the language compared to Standard Lojban" [2], clearly mentioning
> that the language he taught includes "conflicts with CLL Lojban that
> break past usage" [2]. Gleki by himself selected some features beyond
> CLL, that conflicts CLL, and taught them as "modern dialects of
> Lojban" [2], while publicly excluding my parsers Zantufa from Lojban
> works [3]. Nevertheless, Gleki advertised his contents using
> official-pretending accounts. That is one of the evidence that Gleki
> does not have ability to distinguish official from personal.
>
> Evidence 5.
>
> Gleki controls official-pretending accounts on twitter [4].


I offered you that account once. What was your reply?


> Besides
> retweets of other Lojbanists, some of his tweets are news or response
> to feedback to the official website, and most of his tweets are his
> personal opinions [19]. That is one of the evidence that Gleki does
> not have ability to distinguish official from personal.
>
> Evidence 6.
>
> Gleki announced [20] that he prepared a repository on github for
> editing the next version of CLL [21]. Gleki modified some critical
> points on the draft for the next version of CLL without consulting
> BPFK [22] [23]. Gleki explained about one of the modifications: "Since
> there is no official policy on how to assess such push requests
> another person merged them into the CLL 2.0 branch. After that I had
> no idea how the process should go on so I as for {voi} I simply
> temporarily commented it out, not removing that content. Maybe I
> should have made another push request for it. But push request can
> again be merged by someone else." [24] That response is an evidence
> that Gleki freely performed his personal experiment on a common
> repository of lojban coder's group, not on his personal repository.
> Gleki could perform his personal experiment on his own repository
> without sending pull request to the common repository, but he did not
> choose that way. That is one of the evidence that Gleki does not have
> ability to distinguish official from personal.
>

I think I already explained everything regarding github repo.


>
> Conclusion.
>
> I don't demand to stop Gleki's activities on tools, learning
> materials, communications etc. I demand only that Gleki should do them
> on his own website, using his own account. Don't let Gleki pretend to
> be official. Gleki did not sincerely answer to my remarks, and changed
> the subjects as if those were feedback to his personal contents. Gleki
> does not have ability to recognize hiw own crimes. In order to stop
> his dictatorship, there is no way other than depriving Gleki of his
> administratorship on the official website and of official-pretending
> accounts [4][5].
>


As LLG decides. I'm fine with all that "depriving".


> References
>
> [1] https://mw.lojban.org/
>
> [2]
> https://web.archive.org/web/20151031175123/https://mw.lojban.org/papri/La_Bangu
>
> [3] From IRC records:
>
> --- Day changed Mon Aug 10 2015
> 10:43 < gleki> lo catni gerna cu te frica ma'oi GUhA ma'oi GA i ma'i
> la zantufa lo cmavo be ma'oi GUhA cu na'e se nitcu jecu ku'i binxo lo
> cmavo be ma'oi GA i lu ro mo cu ge mo gi mo li'u ja lu ro mo ge cu mo
> gi mo li'u cu se stura lo simsa be tu'a lo catni gerna sei ku'i na'e
> dunli
> 10:43 < gleki> i di'u se cusku la guskant
> 10:43 < gleki> i ja'o lo guskanbau cu banzu frica lo jbobau
>
> [4] https://twitter.com/lojban_org
>
> [5] bangu@lojban.org
>
> [6] https://mw.lojban.org/papri/zantufa/en#Notes
> (archive:http://archive.is/Cz1Tt)
>
> [7]
> http://mw.lojban.org/extensions/ilmentufa/camxes.html
> (archive:
> https://web.archive.org/web/20151015191217/http://mw.lojban.org/extensions/ilmentufa/camxes.html
> )
> http://mw.lojban.org/extensions/ilmentufa/camxes-exp.html
> (archive:
> https://web.archive.org/web/20151127105727/http://mw.lojban.org/extensions/ilmentufa/camxes-exp.html
> )
>
> [8] https://github.com/Ilmen-vodhr/ilmentufa
>
> [9] https://github.com/lojban/ilmentufa
>
> [10] I realized the fact when Gleki destroyed the parsers on mw.lojban.org
> :
>
> https://github.com/lagleki/glekitufa/commit/9dbe1756b016ea567d23e2f0b1201c32bf817a32#commitcomment-15414073
>
> [11] http://vrici.lojban.org/~gleki/mw/extensions/ilmentufa/
>
> [12] https://github.com/lagleki/glekitufa
>
> [13] Gleki's post dated 2015-12-17 on the private LLG mailing list.
>
> [14] For example:
> https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Principle_of_least_effort
> (archive:http://archive.is/6kOXg)
> https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Eric_S_Raymond's_Tengwar_mapping
> (archive:http://archive.is/jhXXz)
> https://mw.lojban.org/papri/English_grammatical_person
> (archive:http://archive.is/KHTjX)
> https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Voynichese_Lojbanic
> (archive:http://archive.is/4wsw8)
> https://mw.lojban.org/papri/turtau (archive: http://archive.is/5gott)
> https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Nalnuantir (archive:http://archive.is/Isj1Q)
>
> https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Lojban._Converting_from_bridi_to_functions_in_programming_languages(archive
> :
> http://archive.is/kBAzw)
> and many others.
>
> [15] Actually, even logged-in readers cannot indentify the
> responsibility of each page in many cases, because the current
> official website mw.lojban.org did not inherit the history from the
> previous official tiki website www.lojban.org: the histories of all
> the inherited pages begin with Gleki's edition.
>
> [16] https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/jGRYIH6EdSA/BBFdDvutDQAJ
>
> [17]
> https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=La_Bangu&oldid=116869#Conflicts_with_CLL_Lojban_that_break_past_usage
>
> [18] https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/oriGf4t1_Xc/eSljctvEDAAJ
>
> [19] http://guskant.github.io/lojbo/open_letter/tsv.html
>
> [20] https://groups.google.com/d/topic/bpfk-list/mQ-qWyjjssQ/discussion
>
> [21] https://github.com/lojban/cll/tree/docbook-prince-cll-2.0
>
> [22]
> https://github.com/lojban/cll/compare/f3bdbe36e4f89d08d56d28cb693fc2ddfbc6785c...6519b9d297dc7e85d616e1a44282a6ada301c631
>
> [23]
> https://github.com/lojban/cll/commit/7af3f68692a3fa5e44a496ee33676ef74ccd3f07
>
> [24] Gleki's post dated 2015-12-25 on the private LLG mailing list.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Llg-members mailing list
> Llg-members@lojban.org
> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">2016-02-27 11:02 GMT+03:00 guskant <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:gusni.kantu@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gusni.kantu@gmail.com</a>&gt;<=
/span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bor=
der-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Introduction.<br>
<br>
Dear LLG members,<br>
<br>
This is an open letter of my simple demand. The identical contents are<br>
published at <a href=3D"http://guskant.github.io/lojbo/open_letter/" rel=3D=
"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://guskant.github.io/lojbo/open_letter/<=
/a> . The URL is<br>
posted also to the lojban mailing list.<br>
Gleki is an administrator of the official website [1]. Gleki put<br>
useful tools on the official website, and also created a Lojban course<br>
for beginners. In the course, Gleki taught some unofficial features<br>
with notice of &quot;unofficial&quot;. That is not a crime.<br>
<br>
Gleki let the learners use the tools that he put on the official<br>
website. That is not a crime.<br>
<br>
Gleki did not make clear the responsible person of the tools. That is a cri=
me.<br>
<br>
Gleki called the contents of his course as &quot;modern dialects of Lojban&=
quot;<br>
[2], while Gleki called my parser Zantufa as &quot;different from Lojban&qu=
ot;<br>
[3]. That made my life as a Lojbanic artist difficult but is not a<br>
crime.<br>
<br>
Gleki advertised his course using official-pretending accounts of<br>
Twitter [4] or email [5]. That activity combined with his terms of<br>
abuse on my parser Zantufa [3] removed my life as a Lojbanic artist<br>
and is a crime.<br>
<br>
I don&#39;t demand to stop any critics on my works including Zantufa.<br>
Actually, Durka42 published much more terms of abuse on my parser<br>
Zantufa than Gleki did, and Tsani also joined Durka42. Although I<br>
qualified them &quot;despicable&quot; [6], I don&#39;t demand them to stop =
their<br>
&quot;critics&quot; on my works. Anyone has freedom to be despicable to me.=
<br>
<br>
However, I herewith make a complaint against Gleki for abusing his<br>
administratorship on the official website and for his<br>
official-pretending Twitter account [4] and e-mail account [5]. I<br>
demand depriving Gleki of his administratorship on the official<br>
website and of official-pretending accounts [4][5]. The tools put on<br>
the official website by Gleki should be moved to Gleki&#39;s own website<br=
>
other than <a href=3D"http://lojban.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blan=
k">lojban.org</a>, or kept on the official website and maintained<br>
by a new administrator other than Gleki with clear mentioning about<br>
the responsible person of the tools.<br>
<br>
Details of Gleki&#39;s crimes.<br>
<br>
Gleki advertised his course and his tools using official-pretending<br>
accounts. That activity makes people believe that Gleki&#39;s contents<br>
were admitted by the official body as &quot;modern dialects of Lojban&quot;=
.<br>
That activity combined with his terms of abuse on my parser Zantufa<br>
produces totalitarism of letting people believe that some unofficial<br>
suggestions are modern dialects of Lojban and my parser Zantufa is<br>
non-Lojban. That totalitarism removes my life as a Lojbanic artist<br>
because all my recent and future Lojbanic artworks are parsed by<br>
Zantufa. I regard that activity of Gleki as an appearance of Gleki&#39;s<br=
>
dictatorship on Lojban community.<br>
<br>
Gleki put tools that may help Lojban speakers on the official website<br>
without any explicit notice about the responsible person of the tools<br>
themselves. For example, the ilmentufa parsers on the official website<br>
[7] were commonly announced on mediawiki pages of the official website<br>
[1], as well as in other communities, that they are parsers for the<br>
official grammar and for an experimental grammar respectively. Those<br>
parsers contain no information about the responsible person for the<br>
contents themselves. Some people may believe that the contents were<br>
identical to those of one of ilmen&#39;s or Lojban coder&#39;s group&#39;s =
github<br>
repositories[8] [9].<br>
<br>
The reality [10] is however that the contents on the official website<br>
[1] are identical neither to ilmen&#39;s, nor to lojban coder&#39;s group&#=
39;s,<br>
but to gleki&#39;s personal folder on the vrici server of <a href=3D"http:/=
/lojban.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">lojban.org</a> [11]<br>
and also to gleki&#39;s github repository [12].<br>
<br>
The fact that Gleki controls the contents on the official website [1]<br>
is problematic because Gleki does not have ability to distinguish<br>
official from personal. Gleki don&#39;t understand all his activities are<b=
r>
not admitted by the official body, regardless of whether the<br>
activities are good or not for Lojban community. The evidences for<br>
that are shown below.<br>
<br>
Evidence 1.<br>
<br>
Gleki removed the expression of &quot;culturally neutral&quot;, the officia=
l<br>
words of CLL Chapter 1 Section 1, from the top page of the official<br>
website [1] without any notice to the official body. He explained the<br>
reason: &quot;I periodically get some negative feedback or questions and<br=
>
when no one seem to answer them I remove corresponding strings.&quot; [13]<=
br>
That response is one of the evidence that Gleki does not have ability<br>
to distinguish official from personal: Gleki modified the contents of<br>
the official website freely as if it were his own website. Gleki<br>
removed even the official words from the top page of the official<br>
website for the reason of &quot;some negative feedback&quot; that are unkno=
wn to<br>
the official body.<br>
<br>
Evidence 2.<br>
<br>
Gleki is creating many pages on his original research without<br>
mentioning &quot;unofficial contents&quot; or &quot;Gleki&#39;s personal pa=
ge&quot; [14].<br>
There is no notice about the responsibility of the contents. The<br>
history of modifications to the pages is visible only to logged-in<br>
accounts, and general visitors cannot identify whether the contents<br>
are supported by the official body or not [15]. Although it is true<br>
that LLG-related pages are tagged with &quot;An official page of LLG&quot;,=
 that<br>
does not imply that pages with no tag are officially unsupported. When<br>
even the top page is not tagged with &quot;official&quot;, who can imagine =
that<br>
the official website is almost filled with Gleki&#39;s original research,<b=
r>
and only a few pages tagged with &quot;official&quot; are really official?<=
br>
Whether Gleki&#39;s original research is good or not is not my subject.<br>
Gleki created many contents of his original research on the official<br>
website without mentioning the responsibility of the contents, and<br>
that is one of the evidence that Gleki does not have ability to<br>
distinguish official from personal. My demand is simple: tag them with<br>
&quot;Gleki&#39;s original research/opinion/...&quot;, or move them all to =
Gleki&#39;s<br>
own website.<br>
<br>
Evidence 3.<br>
<br>
When I made a remark on Gleki&#39;s conceilment of his previous version of<=
br>
his course, he responded: &quot;Because it&#39;s not egocentric and on the<=
br>
contrary altruistic. What can even be egocentric in an activity for<br>
which personally I gain nothing.&quot;[16]<br>
<br>
Actually, Gleki had been revising in keeping the history of pages [17]<br>
[2], but he removed the whole history after my posts to mailing lists<br>
of blaming for his various activities of abusing his administratorship<br>
and using official-pretending accounts. He did not take my remarks as<br>
evidences of his crimes, but he treated the remarks as if they were<br>
feedback to his contents. That is one of the evidence that Gleki does<br>
not have ability to distinguish official from personal: Gleki<br>
completely disregarded my remarks about his confusion of official with<br>
personal, and treated them as if feedback to his personal contents.<br>
<br>
Evidence 4.<br>
<br>
Gleki said &quot;I&#39;m intolerant to everything beyond CLL. Even my<br>
unofficial parsers are merely a playtoy, a tool to study Lojban, not<br>
to break it. Changing Lojban is breaking its community which already<br>
happened once in 2004.&quot; [18]<br>
<br>
That comment of Gleki contradicts what he wrote on another page. Gleki<br>
actually &quot;carefully selects new rules and lexicon being introduced<br>
into the language compared to Standard Lojban&quot; [2], clearly mentioning=
<br>
that the language he taught includes &quot;conflicts with CLL Lojban that<b=
r>
break past usage&quot; [2]. Gleki by himself selected some features beyond<=
br>
CLL, that conflicts CLL, and taught them as &quot;modern dialects of<br>
Lojban&quot; [2], while publicly excluding my parsers Zantufa from Lojban<b=
r>
works [3]. Nevertheless, Gleki advertised his contents using<br>
official-pretending accounts. That is one of the evidence that Gleki<br>
does not have ability to distinguish official from personal.<br>
<br>
Evidence 5.<br>
<br>
Gleki controls official-pretending accounts on twitter [4].</blockquote><di=
v><br></div><div>I offered you that account once. What was your reply?</div=
><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Besides<br=
>
retweets of other Lojbanists, some of his tweets are news or response<br>
to feedback to the official website, and most of his tweets are his<br>
personal opinions [19]. That is one of the evidence that Gleki does<br>
not have ability to distinguish official from personal.<br>
<br>
Evidence 6.<br>
<br>
Gleki announced [20] that he prepared a repository on github for<br>
editing the next version of CLL [21]. Gleki modified some critical<br>
points on the draft for the next version of CLL without consulting<br>
BPFK [22] [23]. Gleki explained about one of the modifications: &quot;Since=
<br>
there is no official policy on how to assess such push requests<br>
another person merged them into the CLL 2.0 branch. After that I had<br>
no idea how the process should go on so I as for {voi} I simply<br>
temporarily commented it out, not removing that content. Maybe I<br>
should have made another push request for it. But push request can<br>
again be merged by someone else.&quot; [24] That response is an evidence<br=
>
that Gleki freely performed his personal experiment on a common<br>
repository of lojban coder&#39;s group, not on his personal repository.<br>
Gleki could perform his personal experiment on his own repository<br>
without sending pull request to the common repository, but he did not<br>
choose that way. That is one of the evidence that Gleki does not have<br>
ability to distinguish official from personal.<br></blockquote><div><br></d=
iv><div>I think I already explained everything regarding github repo.</div>=
<div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Conclusion.<br>
<br>
I don&#39;t demand to stop Gleki&#39;s activities on tools, learning<br>
materials, communications etc. I demand only that Gleki should do them<br>
on his own website, using his own account. Don&#39;t let Gleki pretend to<b=
r>
be official. Gleki did not sincerely answer to my remarks, and changed<br>
the subjects as if those were feedback to his personal contents. Gleki<br>
does not have ability to recognize hiw own crimes. In order to stop<br>
his dictatorship, there is no way other than depriving Gleki of his<br>
administratorship on the official website and of official-pretending<br>
accounts [4][5].<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>As LLG =
decides. I&#39;m fine with all that &quot;depriving&quot;.</div><div><br></=
div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-lef=
t:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
References<br>
<br>
[1] <a href=3D"https://mw.lojban.org/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"=
>https://mw.lojban.org/</a><br>
<br>
[2] <a href=3D"https://web.archive.org/web/20151031175123/https://mw.lojban=
.org/papri/La_Bangu" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://web.archi=
ve.org/web/20151031175123/https://mw.lojban.org/papri/La_Bangu</a><br>
<br>
[3] From IRC records:<br>
<br>
--- Day changed Mon Aug 10 2015<br>
10:43 &lt; gleki&gt; lo catni gerna cu te frica ma&#39;oi GUhA ma&#39;oi GA=
 i ma&#39;i<br>
la zantufa lo cmavo be ma&#39;oi GUhA cu na&#39;e se nitcu jecu ku&#39;i bi=
nxo lo<br>
cmavo be ma&#39;oi GA i lu ro mo cu ge mo gi mo li&#39;u ja lu ro mo ge cu =
mo<br>
gi mo li&#39;u cu se stura lo simsa be tu&#39;a lo catni gerna sei ku&#39;i=
 na&#39;e<br>
dunli<br>
10:43 &lt; gleki&gt; i di&#39;u se cusku la guskant<br>
10:43 &lt; gleki&gt; i ja&#39;o lo guskanbau cu banzu frica lo jbobau<br>
<br>
[4] <a href=3D"https://twitter.com/lojban_org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">https://twitter.com/lojban_org</a><br>
<br>
[5] <a href=3D"mailto:bangu@lojban.org" target=3D"_blank">bangu@lojban.org<=
/a><br>
<br>
[6] <a href=3D"https://mw.lojban.org/papri/zantufa/en#Notes" rel=3D"norefer=
rer" target=3D"_blank">https://mw.lojban.org/papri/zantufa/en#Notes</a><br>
(archive:<a href=3D"http://archive.is/Cz1Tt" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_=
blank">http://archive.is/Cz1Tt</a>)<br>
<br>
[7]<br>
<a href=3D"http://mw.lojban.org/extensions/ilmentufa/camxes.html" rel=3D"no=
referrer" target=3D"_blank">http://mw.lojban.org/extensions/ilmentufa/camxe=
s.html</a><br>
(archive:<a href=3D"https://web.archive.org/web/20151015191217/http://mw.lo=
jban.org/extensions/ilmentufa/camxes.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://web.archive.org/web/20151015191217/http://mw.lojban.org/extens=
ions/ilmentufa/camxes.html</a>)<br>
<a href=3D"http://mw.lojban.org/extensions/ilmentufa/camxes-exp.html" rel=
=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://mw.lojban.org/extensions/ilmentufa=
/camxes-exp.html</a><br>
(archive:<a href=3D"https://web.archive.org/web/20151127105727/http://mw.lo=
jban.org/extensions/ilmentufa/camxes-exp.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">https://web.archive.org/web/20151127105727/http://mw.lojban.org/ex=
tensions/ilmentufa/camxes-exp.html</a>)<br>
<br>
[8] <a href=3D"https://github.com/Ilmen-vodhr/ilmentufa" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
 target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/Ilmen-vodhr/ilmentufa</a><br>
<br>
[9] <a href=3D"https://github.com/lojban/ilmentufa" rel=3D"noreferrer" targ=
et=3D"_blank">https://github.com/lojban/ilmentufa</a><br>
<br>
[10] I realized the fact when Gleki destroyed the parsers on <a href=3D"htt=
p://mw.lojban.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">mw.lojban.org</a>:<=
br>
<a href=3D"https://github.com/lagleki/glekitufa/commit/9dbe1756b016ea567d23=
e2f0b1201c32bf817a32#commitcomment-15414073" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_=
blank">https://github.com/lagleki/glekitufa/commit/9dbe1756b016ea567d23e2f0=
b1201c32bf817a32#commitcomment-15414073</a><br>
<br>
[11] <a href=3D"http://vrici.lojban.org/~gleki/mw/extensions/ilmentufa/" re=
l=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://vrici.lojban.org/~gleki/mw/extens=
ions/ilmentufa/</a><br>
<br>
[12] <a href=3D"https://github.com/lagleki/glekitufa" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://github.com/lagleki/glekitufa</a><br>
<br>
[13] Gleki&#39;s post dated 2015-12-17 on the private LLG mailing list.<br>
<br>
[14] For example:<br>
<a href=3D"https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Principle_of_least_effort" rel=3D"no=
referrer" target=3D"_blank">https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Principle_of_least_=
effort</a><br>
(archive:<a href=3D"http://archive.is/6kOXg" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_=
blank">http://archive.is/6kOXg</a>)<br>
<a href=3D"https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Eric_S_Raymond&#39;s_Tengwar_mapping=
" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Eric_S_R=
aymond&#39;s_Tengwar_mapping</a><br>
(archive:<a href=3D"http://archive.is/jhXXz" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_=
blank">http://archive.is/jhXXz</a>)<br>
<a href=3D"https://mw.lojban.org/papri/English_grammatical_person" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://mw.lojban.org/papri/English_grammatica=
l_person</a><br>
(archive:<a href=3D"http://archive.is/KHTjX" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_=
blank">http://archive.is/KHTjX</a>)<br>
<a href=3D"https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Voynichese_Lojbanic" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Voynichese_Lojbanic</a><b=
r>
(archive:<a href=3D"http://archive.is/4wsw8" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_=
blank">http://archive.is/4wsw8</a>)<br>
<a href=3D"https://mw.lojban.org/papri/turtau" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">https://mw.lojban.org/papri/turtau</a> (archive: <a href=3D"http:/=
/archive.is/5gott" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://archive.is/5=
gott</a>)<br>
<a href=3D"https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Nalnuantir" rel=3D"noreferrer" targe=
t=3D"_blank">https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Nalnuantir</a> (archive:<a href=3D=
"http://archive.is/Isj1Q" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://archi=
ve.is/Isj1Q</a>)<br>
<a href=3D"https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Lojban._Converting_from_bridi_to_fun=
ctions_in_programming_languages(archive" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Lojban._Converting_from_bridi_to_functions_i=
n_programming_languages(archive</a>:<br>
<a href=3D"http://archive.is/kBAzw" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://archive.is/kBAzw</a>)<br>
and many others.<br>
<br>
[15] Actually, even logged-in readers cannot indentify the<br>
responsibility of each page in many cases, because the current<br>
official website <a href=3D"http://mw.lojban.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=
=3D"_blank">mw.lojban.org</a> did not inherit the history from the<br>
previous official tiki website <a href=3D"http://www.lojban.org" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer" target=3D"_blank">www.lojban.org</a>: the histories of all<br>
the inherited pages begin with Gleki&#39;s edition.<br>
<br>
[16] <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/jGRYIH6EdSA/BBFdDvut=
DQAJ" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/msg/=
lojban/jGRYIH6EdSA/BBFdDvutDQAJ</a><br>
<br>
[17] <a href=3D"https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=3DLa_Bangu&amp;oldid=
=3D116869#Conflicts_with_CLL_Lojban_that_break_past_usage" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=3DLa_Bangu&amp;o=
ldid=3D116869#Conflicts_with_CLL_Lojban_that_break_past_usage</a><br>
<br>
[18] <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/msg/lojban/oriGf4t1_Xc/eSljctvE=
DAAJ" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/msg/=
lojban/oriGf4t1_Xc/eSljctvEDAAJ</a><br>
<br>
[19] <a href=3D"http://guskant.github.io/lojbo/open_letter/tsv.html" rel=3D=
"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://guskant.github.io/lojbo/open_letter/t=
sv.html</a><br>
<br>
[20] <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/topic/bpfk-list/mQ-qWyjjssQ/dis=
cussion" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/t=
opic/bpfk-list/mQ-qWyjjssQ/discussion</a><br>
<br>
[21] <a href=3D"https://github.com/lojban/cll/tree/docbook-prince-cll-2.0" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/lojban/cll/tree/doc=
book-prince-cll-2.0</a><br>
<br>
[22] <a href=3D"https://github.com/lojban/cll/compare/f3bdbe36e4f89d08d56d2=
8cb693fc2ddfbc6785c...6519b9d297dc7e85d616e1a44282a6ada301c631" rel=3D"nore=
ferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/lojban/cll/compare/f3bdbe36e4f=
89d08d56d28cb693fc2ddfbc6785c...6519b9d297dc7e85d616e1a44282a6ada301c631</a=
><br>
<br>
[23] <a href=3D"https://github.com/lojban/cll/commit/7af3f68692a3fa5e44a496=
ee33676ef74ccd3f07" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com=
/lojban/cll/commit/7af3f68692a3fa5e44a496ee33676ef74ccd3f07</a><br>
<br>
[24] Gleki&#39;s post dated 2015-12-25 on the private LLG mailing list.<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Llg-members mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Llg-members@lojban.org" target=3D"_blank">Llg-members@loj=
ban.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members" rel=3D"nore=
ferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-membe=
rs</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>

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