Received: from localhost ([::1]:52971 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1apgNe-0002DV-7m; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:16:10 -0700 Received: from mail-lf0-f49.google.com ([209.85.215.49]:35104) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1apgNV-0002Ca-5D for llg-members@lojban.org; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:16:07 -0700 Received: by mail-lf0-f49.google.com with SMTP id c126so169050660lfb.2 for ; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:16:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=8E7RSskYvGCch9a9qJ5oZlXG78RFc0A1JjBCRhLyGSo=; b=W4wrF2apfGTMVEUlz9a0a6pbVnH4e/scUD2IM87/jo/OHYsqbTdiTBhsSqpNYLTCra J1318SK6eUyvJd66bcNCE4htk4Lmb5LD0KPtanODXh1RR4Je7qxJXs7aOmFUzC2VvSCk Qy5xzz1/C4lseD4QnaOaPj6LizbaW9d1FU7aPgy5kpFjlTpFFJj60OVdkS7zuTiI3ifP QfyQOGq1s2aDEuo2TeLJVT8E0og9njtBAU9Ydjhcv8/bP7aAQLZPjQVsk3PNYTr7schC bXix7d91jEuJ6QayCWpnIBnDyf7UvJhnAHYHmGMUJY/oAe38GjcN8tUlcIazEhCDroBU IxbA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=8E7RSskYvGCch9a9qJ5oZlXG78RFc0A1JjBCRhLyGSo=; b=Y1QQD2BF8Q/VyxSvG+HQt/m8DkCAdWZ3jcrd7b3I4bG60PJhhxoUwAJZpDKNQVeQUt ibeKOf5CCRL9MQyWq43KzSst2PKFkCCJfiAcKc1lGud/kfMywlzMI/Hw5VTlZlvQiGDP xoafsMmPxrtioio+YgI392g/dmreF6F8XATK9QAvNcGfe554vgd1m273vwmv8TDJIkDI OC82/IQfoM2Sy3seZME7OyYgOCJj9ByGS7xGB/qed16300X7ORhwi7hwVF2zwrhZs1Wy bZAeadJL+ZC7ML2gcAr6dVj4iOe74sgiMl/wu2yFQCP8YMPm9vcBsw8bG9L44GdGg6Hp 3QzQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJL+vowDhK7pAOeWKPy9tl4MTA6/G4vZWbskNaeo1XIrFjJ7OmiavLKY7pIkwEw8OSWAQ/qNSKZCq8+RAQ== X-Received: by 10.112.157.66 with SMTP id wk2mr7379653lbb.53.1460398553323; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:15:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.112.144.229 with HTTP; Mon, 11 Apr 2016 11:15:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <56FA169C.8070702@lojban.org> <57001FFF.4060601@lojban.org> <570A97D6.2010207@lojban.org> <29164749-21C9-49D5-9821-DE0A3101B51F@gmail.com> From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2016 21:15:13 +0300 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Sustaining membership and sustainability X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6745696090454960456==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============6745696090454960456== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c324840061260530398941 --001a11c324840061260530398941 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2016-04-11 21:06 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks : > I like these ideas a lot. We should discuss them at the next meeting. > > I think that sustaining membership fees would be independent of donations= . > Donations might be earmarked but a membership fee would he contributed wi= th > the understanding that the money can be spent howsoever the LLG desires > (for the purposes of Lojban) in return for certain membership benefits. > But what is LLG? Isn't it us? > On Apr 11, 2016 11:03, "Gleki Arxokuna" > wrote: > > > > 2016-04-11 17:54 GMT+03:00 Riley Martinez-Lynch : > >> I=E2=80=99m definitely tuned in, but I may have left too much time for o= ther old >> business to be discussed. Sorry about that! >> >> I do not intend to raise a motion during this meeting on the topic of >> sustaining memberships. I also hesitate to bring it up in the context of >> the meeting, because I don=E2=80=99t want to further prolong the meeting= . That >> said, I=E2=80=99d like to encourage members to start thinking about the = subject >> with the idea that we could revisit it next meeting. >> >> For a long time, LLG has not had to worry about its finances. It=E2=80= =99s been a >> long time since the legal costs of the battle with TLI were retired, and >> since the upfront costs of publishing CLL were repaid. Thanks to Robin, >> we=E2=80=99ve also benefited, for more than a decade, from donated serve= r time. The >> servers that run the web sites, the mailing list, and the IRC bots would >> contribute substantial monthly overhead if we had to pay for them from >> treasury funds. >> >> Thanks to the generosity of its authors, sales of CLL have provided LLG >> with a surplus. But that won=E2=80=99t last forever. It does, however, b= uy us time >> to discuss the role we would like LLG to play as a financial entity >> supporting and promoting lojban. Some recent proposals, such as >> additional/redundant servers for the web site and annual prizes for work= in >> and about lojban, would draw from treasury funds. I am interested in >> pursuing these idea, but I think as we do, we should also discuss how we >> can make them sustainable. >> >> One thing that we ought to consider is introducing the notion of >> sustaining membership, as defined in LLG=E2=80=99s bylaws, but never =E2= =80=93 to my >> knowledge =E2=80=93 exercised. >> >> Currently, there is only one kind of membership in LLG: Voting >> membership. It costs nothing but participation time in the annual meetin= g, >> and returns the right to vote on organization business. >> >> Sustaining membership would introduce an annual fee, such as the $35 tha= t >> the Language Creation Society charges its members. If LLG were to follow >> suit at current membership levels, for example, we could offset more tha= n >> $800 of annual overhead. >> >> There could be an additional benefit of sustaining membership in so far >> as it could help members to establish a tangible commitment to the >> organization. >> >> The proposal to establish an annual achievement award seems to have >> generated quite a bit of interest over the last few years. Perhaps we co= uld >> establish such an award and a notion of sustaining membership at the sam= e >> time. Participation would be limited to sustaining members, and the cost= of >> the prize or prizes would be drawn directly from membership fees. >> >> I=E2=80=99d also be interested in establishing a formula to adjust the m= embership >> fee according to the cost of living in the countries where members are >> resident. >> >> Looping back around, I do not want to raise any motion at this meeting. >> But I hope that people consider these ideas, and if there=E2=80=99s an i= nterest in >> pursuing them in earnest, that we raise them at the next meeting. >> > > My view is that whoever donates money to LLG should have the right to > specify for which activities it is to be spent. > > E.g. I am opposed to spending any money on physical logfest meetings > except when those who want to organize them use their own money. > > >> =E2=80=94Riley >> noi ta=E2=80=99e me la mukti >> >> > On Apr 10, 2016, at 2:13 PM, Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - >> LLG wrote: >> > >> > On 4/2/2016 3:39 PM, Bob LeChevalier wrote: >> >> Discussion of old business topics should continue. If no one else >> >> proposes any discussion, mukti should proceed with his discussion of >> >> sustaining membership. >> > >> > Mukti seems not to be paying attention, and no other old business >> topics have been raised. I'm going to open the floor to New Business, >> while continuing to permit mukti to raise his proposal if/when he is rea= dy. >> > >> > I have over the course of the meeting mentioned several topics that >> would be appropriate for New business, but I will let the membership >> propose what you want to talk about first. >> > >> > lojbab >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Llg-members mailing list >> > Llg-members@lojban.org >> > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Llg-members mailing list >> Llg-members@lojban.org >> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > > > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > > --001a11c324840061260530398941 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2016-04-11 21:06 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks <curtis.w.franks@gma= il.com>:

I l= ike these ideas a lot. We should discuss them at the next meeting.

I think that sustaining membership fees would be independent= of donations. Donations might be earmarked but a membership fee would he c= ontributed with the understanding that the money can be spent howsoever the= LLG desires (for the purposes of Lojban) in return for certain membership = benefits.


But what is LLG? Isn't it= us?

=C2=A0
On Apr 11, 2016 11:03, "Gleki Arxokuna"= ; <gleki= .is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:


<= div>2016-04-11 17:54 GMT+03:00 Riley Martinez-Lynch <<= a href=3D"mailto:shunpiker@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">shunpiker@gmail.com= >:
I=E2=80=99m definitely t= uned in, but I may have left too much time for other old business to be dis= cussed. Sorry about that!

I do not intend to raise a motion during this meeting on the topic of susta= ining memberships. I also hesitate to bring it up in the context of the mee= ting, because I don=E2=80=99t want to further prolong the meeting. That sai= d, I=E2=80=99d like to encourage members to start thinking about the subjec= t with the idea that we could revisit it next meeting.

For a long time, LLG has not had to worry about its finances. It=E2=80=99s = been a long time since the legal costs of the battle with TLI were retired,= and since the upfront costs of publishing CLL were repaid. Thanks to Robin= , we=E2=80=99ve also benefited, for more than a decade, from donated server= time. The servers that run the web sites, the mailing list, and the IRC bo= ts would contribute substantial monthly overhead if we had to pay for them = from treasury funds.

Thanks to the generosity of its authors, sales of CLL have provided LLG wit= h a surplus. But that won=E2=80=99t last forever. It does, however, buy us = time to discuss the role we would like LLG to play as a financial entity su= pporting and promoting lojban. Some recent proposals, such as additional/re= dundant servers for the web site and annual prizes for work in and about lo= jban, would draw from treasury funds. I am interested in pursuing these ide= a, but I think as we do, we should also discuss how we can make them sustai= nable.

One thing that we ought to consider is introducing the notion of sustaining= membership, as defined in LLG=E2=80=99s bylaws, but never =E2=80=93 to my = knowledge =E2=80=93 exercised.

Currently, there is only one kind of membership in LLG: Voting membership. = It costs nothing but participation time in the annual meeting, and returns = the right to vote on organization business.

Sustaining membership would introduce an annual fee, such as the $35 that t= he Language Creation Society charges its members. If LLG were to follow sui= t at current membership levels, for example, we could offset more than $800= of annual overhead.

There could be an additional benefit of sustaining membership in so far as = it could help members to establish a tangible commitment to the organizatio= n.

The proposal to establish an annual achievement award seems to have generat= ed quite a bit of interest over the last few years. Perhaps we could establ= ish such an award and a notion of sustaining membership at the same time. P= articipation would be limited to sustaining members, and the cost of the pr= ize or prizes would be drawn directly from membership fees.

I=E2=80=99d also be interested in establishing a formula to adjust the memb= ership fee according to the cost of living in the countries where members a= re resident.

Looping back around, I do not want to raise any motion at this meeting. But= I hope that people consider these ideas, and if there=E2=80=99s an interes= t in pursuing them in earnest, that we raise them at the next meeting.
<= /blockquote>

My view is that whoever donates money= to LLG should have the right to specify for which activities it is to be s= pent.

E.g. I am opposed to spending any money on p= hysical logfest meetings except when those who want to organize them use th= eir own money.


=E2=80=94Riley
noi ta=E2=80=99e me la mukti

> On Apr 10, 2016, at 2:13 PM, Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - = LLG <lojbab@lojba= n.org> wrote:
>
> On 4/2/2016 3:39 PM, Bob LeChevalier wrote:
>> Discussion of old business topics should continue.=C2=A0 If no one= else
>> proposes any discussion, mukti should proceed with his discussion = of
>> sustaining membership.
>
> Mukti seems not to be paying attention, and no other old business topi= cs have been raised.=C2=A0 I'm going to open the floor to New Business,= while continuing to permit mukti to raise his proposal if/when he is ready= .
>
> I have over the course of the meeting mentioned several topics that wo= uld be appropriate for New business, but I will let the membership propose = what you want to talk about first.
>
> lojbab
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Llg-members mailing list
> Llg-member= s@lojban.org
> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members


_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-membe= rs


_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-membe= rs


_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-membe= rs


--001a11c324840061260530398941-- --===============6745696090454960456== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Llg-members mailing list Llg-members@lojban.org http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members --===============6745696090454960456==--