Received: from localhost ([::1]:46866 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1cQ6nA-0005eH-M6; Sat, 07 Jan 2017 22:17:20 -0800 Received: from mail-ua0-f177.google.com ([209.85.217.177]:33570) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1cQ6n5-0005e4-0t for llg-members@lojban.org; Sat, 07 Jan 2017 22:17:19 -0800 Received: by mail-ua0-f177.google.com with SMTP id i68so335124149uad.0 for ; Sat, 07 Jan 2017 22:17:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=O2QTZbIRzF4DF7AAxaN0xCgqbrjfE6BcauKb/pwOePE=; b=DOPMAC5XLuQhGGnGuY3DPoLHn0LzDNMZG/8zISjFY4cKUPZk7W6MESt5XsIBG60iuT 7fF8u2cJBVuDo8upENhUPhFSY1jSfMesk0srkUIoBe2GhHSywPoPpAqufqUElJkyKGFr Dx8CDq8uRncVJdiDicYh6xJ+6hVOEmIC1gTAosusIvvI9qTE3oI6XgEcAyDaowKRZN0R 96birjrB1KFOqE0mMXuMAsrEqwfrPEKWwr6XH13B+nYfhO70dZKsIJfRZo0cfCiNMRW0 09E5VwdQfcSemH2cXeD6wuDeOHhhWebU8mAGqDygDB5jubsOpsjVju31Z9poxYtxdYf5 vmGQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=O2QTZbIRzF4DF7AAxaN0xCgqbrjfE6BcauKb/pwOePE=; b=qS5Sb2UFujEbxYOOofwdId8xgc3loiVxPHDJn6r25iXyf/jnlT6sokqHDIgYBUh2YV 7xZo1mnPc17GM9PmSVmSxbhWKkcqxY0rg8AX9lJ+Yr8UNRwDFGB5wHz5E0ygUnN/5Set zbWjVdGhD/MgMDQaDrp2+vjZbRAjMEqNeHxLaetavTuFO9a/iXzcbb395bTJj2h/dpAR s3El+MHQrbaphZK5cJWVBn2ljRP8wg7z3JVXZvmW4y6gCKD4te6bOicigttsbdCnMKtj bh9e5fm9nKwhfyNJLiedNgLtzArbilxemUsOD+2tILmewksTlDIeja5mU7oZp/5oAvo0 dpIg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXJ4yNj9H1HsdfYJ9D54D1SvRqOqftmRR1lcmQ+iunCxbRmVpFpY6jfm/0qzPv9Wk4v0xUcA2IPRGOz/hQ== X-Received: by 10.176.0.52 with SMTP id 49mr11342739uai.66.1483856228020; Sat, 07 Jan 2017 22:17:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.6.202 with HTTP; Sat, 7 Jan 2017 22:17:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.176.6.202 with HTTP; Sat, 7 Jan 2017 22:17:07 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <53B28F1E-8F56-4FFE-BFA2-5DF078487606@gmail.com> References: <8BCCD0E2-E6D4-4687-9D89-D177E69E1259@gmail.com> <56DE1D83.8050901@lojban.org> <8EC7FC36-8C8F-43FD-AE6A-C704D1D9C2CE@gmail.com> <12678381.nPyR9sEY1K@caracal> <56E0AE11.8020708@lojban.org> <56E1F54E.3040501@lojban.org> <56E5FFAF.1030405@selpahi.de> <20160319165805.GA8304@mercury.ccil.org> <53B28F1E-8F56-4FFE-BFA2-5DF078487606@gmail.com> From: Curtis Franks Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2017 01:17:07 -0500 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_bar: - Subject: Re: [Llg-members] 2015 Annual Meeting - Old Business - BPFK X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6956521411427653079==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============6956521411427653079== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1146785e5e74bd05458f33b2 --001a1146785e5e74bd05458f33b2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 The official cmavo list would be easy to sort out, I think. It is already broken down into selma'o. All that is really left is to sort the selma'o by important to a given lesson or audience. Then, within the selma'o, the individual cmavo can be sorted (possibly with some sort of threshold: "anything which is less important than X will get only a passing mention for now"). We could (and maybe already have) throw(n) together a list of every cmavo with the latest definitions according to the CLL and the BPFK (possibly distinguished via color or something), and links to futher (officially approved) discussion on those words; then every lesson about cmavo can link to this document/webpage. gismu are a bit harder and also probably much more dependent on the audience or lesson. Some possible sorting mechanisms would be by building a story or a theme (these are words for the kitchen, these are words for dining at restaurants, these are words for being on a farm, these are body-parts, etc.), or sorting by semantic frame. On Mar 20, 2016 21:47, "Karen Stein" wrote: > There's been discussion of how much types of vocabulary and/or grammar > should be classified as official and controlled. I didn't want to go > through clipping my way through all of it, shoo I hope the above is a > sufficient less in for my comments. I hope I make sense. > > As someone who has relatively recently returned to learning Lojban after > initially learning it when all of the language was controlled I believe I > have important insight into one aspect of this broad issue. > > I believe that there should be an easily found document (detailed > spreadsheet, or whatever format) that is specifically designated as the > most common, most important to learn first vocabulary. This would be all > approved items so that it is much more likely the people using the list > will be understood and well understand the majority of what is said to > them. I found it confusing to figure out which vocabulary list to learn > from, and I find almost everything written in the language further > confusing due to all the linguistic experimentation occurring. Personally I > think that keeping a rein, at least on what is published under the auspices > of LLG and BPFK, will hopefully slow some of the process. This was my > understanding, from the 1990s, of our intention. Nat languages certainly > evolve, but the speed of this evolution is significantly slower. Slowing > Lojban's evolution will probably help increase and maintain the number of > users, and this has been discussed as a major issue facing our community. > > .karis. > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > > --001a1146785e5e74bd05458f33b2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The official cmavo list would be easy to sort out, I thin= k. It is already broken down into selma'o. All that is really left is t= o sort the selma'o by important to a given lesson or audience. Then, wi= thin the selma'o, the individual cmavo can be sorted (possibly with som= e sort of threshold: "anything which is less important than X will get= only a passing mention for now"). We could (and maybe already have) t= hrow(n) together a list of every cmavo with the latest definitions accordin= g to the CLL and the BPFK (possibly distinguished via color or something), = and links to futher (officially approved) discussion on those words; then e= very lesson about cmavo can link to this document/webpage.

gismu are a bit harder and also probably much = more dependent on the audience or lesson. Some possible sorting mechanisms = would be by building a story or a theme (these are words for the kitchen, t= hese are words for dining at restaurants, these are words for being on a fa= rm, these are body-parts, etc.), or sorting by semantic frame.
<= div class=3D"gmail_extra">
On Mar 20, 2016 21= :47, "Karen Stein" <c= omcaresvcs@gmail.com> wrote:
There's been discussion of how much types of vocabulary= and/or grammar should be classified as official and controlled. I didn'= ;t want to go through clipping my way through all of it, shoo I hope the ab= ove is a sufficient less in for my comments. I hope I make sense.

As someone who has relatively recently returned to learning Lojban after in= itially learning it when all of the language was controlled I believe I hav= e important insight into one aspect of this broad issue.

I believe that there should be an easily found document (detailed spreadshe= et, or whatever format) that is specifically designated as the most common,= most important to learn first vocabulary. This would be all approved items= so that it is much more likely the people using the list will be understoo= d and well understand the majority of what is said to them. I found it conf= using to figure out which vocabulary list to learn from, and I find almost = everything written in the language further confusing due to all the linguis= tic experimentation occurring. Personally I think that keeping a rein, at l= east on what is published under the auspices of LLG and BPFK, will hopefull= y slow some of the process. This was my understanding, from the 1990s, of o= ur intention. Nat languages certainly evolve, but the speed of this evoluti= on is significantly slower. Slowing Lojban's evolution will probably he= lp increase and maintain the number of users, and this has been discussed a= s a major issue facing our community.

.karis.
_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members

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