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([2600:1003:b867:1d0b:4c07:53f7:1c55:fba3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v63sm3936733qkc.58.2017.02.12.05.26.17 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 12 Feb 2017 05:26:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 08:26:12 -0500 In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 To: llg-members@lojban.org From: Karen Stein Message-ID: <043FA78B-0C3C-4A53-A408-51C436A808C0@gmail.com> X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_bar: - Subject: Re: [Llg-members] 2016 Annual Meeting of the Logical Language Group, Inc. - call to order and roll call X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7592730949454562658==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============7592730949454562658== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----37IO1RE4I8U77SSDCM5O7BKM303333" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ------37IO1RE4I8U77SSDCM5O7BKM303333 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable While I can see they could speed up the meetings proper, I still have the s= ame problems with holding our discussions in this way=2E=20 The first, and to me most significant, is that not everyone (and I believe= more than mukti believes) are not available for regular IRC conversations= =2E Speaking as one person for whom this is true I do not see making commen= ts during the meeting in response to the prior discussion will receive any = where near the consideration of that given to those during the IRC conversa= tion=2E Once people develop an opinion on a topic it is significantly more = difficult to change their views than if the new insights are presented duri= ng the initial conversation=2E This leaves input of anyone who has familial= or other restrictions on IRC use (including any caused by disabilities, fo= r instance) at a distinct disadvantage and could leave people feeling unimp= ortant when really everyone has valuable ideas=2E Lojban is not only import= ant to younger people who are more likely to be without family and other ob= ligations, or whom are the most technologically savvy=2E Such people should= not feel or be left behind=2E Second, the issue of timing is also important particularly in light of the= above=2E If people are having difficulty joining in conversations due to i= ssues other than time zone, rotating the start times may boot help=2E Furth= er, such rotation just makes many not able to join in on a particular topic= , then a somewhat different selection of people not able to join in the nex= t time=2E It means even more fragmented participation=2E=20 Email discussion is more lengthy, but much more inclusive=2E That is why i= am not comfortable with this proposed change=2E karis On February 5, 2017 7:13:40 AM EST, Bob LeChevalier = wrote: >On 1/23/2017 3:06 PM, Bob LeChevalier wrote: >> Next on the agenda are the minutes from last meeting=2E Our Secretary >> (mukti) is traveling out of this country for the next week or so, so >I >> will defer that item until he returns=2E >> >> Next we have reports of Officers and committees=2E Again, we will have >to >> wait for mukti to post the Treasurers report after his return=2E > >I had hoped mukti would be back by now, and would have posted the >above,=20 >but it seems not to be the case=2E In order to move the meetinbg along, >I=20 >will suggest that someone move that we defer these items until the 2017 > >meeting=2E > >> I call upon the byfy chairman to report=2E Pierre's committee (of one?) >> regarding the development of proficiency tests is the only other >> committee, I think=2E So he can also report=2E > >Thanks to the two of you for the reports=2E Reappointment of the byfy=20 >chair will be under old business=2E > >One of mukti's suggestions for expediting future meetings, so that they > >don't last for months, is that whereever possible, motions are >presented=20 >in advance of the (next) meeting and discussed on various forums=20 >(including the members list, but also IRC and whatever else people want > >to try), before they are formally raised at the meeting=2E I suspect >that=20 >some of the things suggested by the byfy chair in his report would best > >be discussed in the context of such motions as would support their=20 >implementation=2E selpa'i, could you prepare such motions, and post them > >when appropriate=2E (in the current suggestion, I suspect that we can=20 >have such motions posted as new business, and at the same time tabled=20 >until the next meeting=2E Or just post them for discussion now while we= =20 >are still on reports=2E > >> I am trying to transition myself out of active leadership/management >of >> the organization=2E As such, I asked Karen Stein, the VP, and Curtis >> Franks, also on the Board, to seek via the mailing lists and other >forms >> of communication, inputs from the community as to what LLG should be >> doing now and in the future to support and promote Lojban, and to >make >> recommendations for action=2E I would like them to report on what they >> found out, and what they think should be done (either by the >membership, >> by the Board, or by volunteers)=2E > >I haven't seen a report from Karen or Curtis=2E We really need to figure > >out what LLG will be doing as an organization in a post-lojbab=20 >environment, and the inputs from the community are essential=2E Please= =20 >report=2E > >> I've asked mukti in his role as managing communications to work with >> gleki and report on various issues that have been raised regarding >the >> management of the Lojban web site=2E > >Again this will have to wait for mukti to have time to make such a >report=2E > >> Any other members, Board or otherwise, are welcome to report on any >> other projects/activities that they feel the membership should be >aware >> of, and any actions that they would like LLG to take as an >organization >> in support of those activities/projects=2E At this point, I am just >> looking for reports and recommendations, not motions=2E > >My thanks to guskant and to gleki for their reports=2E It is not clear= =20 >that either of these points to a motion to be considered by the=20 >membership=2E If I am incorrect, please proceed as mentioned above for= =20 >byfy reports=2E > >> After we get done with all reports, we will call for new members, and >> elect a new Board of Directors=2E > >It is not clear that all reports that will be made are completed, but >in=20 >the interests of moving the meeting along, I call for people wishing to > >become members to speak up now, (along with any proposals by others for > >people not currently present to become members - we will need to get=20 >them to state that they wish to be members, and get them added to this=20 >mailing list)=2E > >> I will allow at least a full week for all of the above reports to be >> posted=2E Feel free to discuss any reports, ask questions, etc=2E > >I will allow another week for any additional reports, as well as >motions=20 >regarding deferring of minutes and reports (which motions can be=20 >seconded without waiting for me)=2E Then we will act on any motions as= =20 >appropriate and approve those new members=2E Then Board elections, short > >consideration of motions, and we adjourn=2E > >Again, the following: >> If for whatever reason I have not posted again for more than 2 weeks >> from today, I ask the VP to assume the chair and attempt to move the >> meeting onward, in line with the above and the Bylaw-directed agenda=2E > >lojbab > > >_______________________________________________ >Llg-members mailing list >Llg-members@lojban=2Eorg >http://mail=2Elojban=2Eorg/mailman/listinfo/llg-members ------37IO1RE4I8U77SSDCM5O7BKM303333 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable While I can see they could speed up the meetings p= roper, I still have the same problems with holding our discussions in this = way=2E

The first, and to me most significant, is that not everyone (and I believe= more than mukti believes) are not available for regular IRC conversations= =2E Speaking as one person for whom this is true I do not see making commen= ts during the meeting in response to the prior discussion will receive any = where near the consideration of that given to those during the IRC conversa= tion=2E Once people develop an opinion on a topic it is significantly more = difficult to change their views than if the new insights are presented duri= ng the initial conversation=2E This leaves input of anyone who has familial= or other restrictions on IRC use (including any caused by disabilities, fo= r instance) at a distinct disadvantage and could leave people feeling unimp= ortant when really everyone has valuable ideas=2E Lojban is not only import= ant to younger people who are more likely to be without family and other ob= ligations, or whom are the most technologically savvy=2E Such people should= not feel or be left behind=2E

Second, the issue of timing is also important particularly in light of the= above=2E If people are having difficulty joining in conversations due to i= ssues other than time zone, rotating the start times may boot help=2E Furth= er, such rotation just makes many not able to join in on a particular topic= , then a somewhat different selection of people not able to join in the nex= t time=2E It means even more fragmented participation=2E

Email discussion is more lengthy, but much more inclusive=2E That is why i= am not comfortable with this proposed change=2E

karis

On February 5, 2017 7:13:40 AM EST= , Bob LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban=2Eorg> wrote:
On 1/23/2017 3:06 PM, Bob LeChevalier wrote:
 Next on the agenda are the =
minutes from last meeting=2E  Our Secretary
 (mukti) is traveling out =
of this country for the next week or so, so I
 will defer that item un=
til he returns=2E

 Next we have reports of Officers and committe=
es=2E  Again, we will have to
 wait for mukti to post the Treasurers r=
eport after his return=2E

I had hoped mukti would b= e back by now, and would have posted the above,
but it seems not to b= e the case=2E In order to move the meetinbg along, I
will suggest th= at someone move that we defer these items until the 2017
meeting=2E
I call upon th= e byfy chairman to report=2E Pierre's committee (of one?)
regarding t= he development of proficiency tests is the only other
committee, I th= ink=2E So he can also report=2E

Thanks to the two = of you for the reports=2E Reappointment of the byfy
chair will be un= der old business=2E

One of mukti's suggestions for expediting fu= ture meetings, so that they
don't last for months, is that whereever = possible, motions are presented
in advance of the (next) meeting and = discussed on various forums
(including the members list, but also IRC= and whatever else people want
to try), before they are formally rais= ed at the meeting=2E I suspect that
some of the things suggested by = the byfy chair in his report would best
be discussed in the context o= f such motions as would support their
implementation=2E selpa'i, cou= ld you prepare such motions, and post them
when appropriate=2E (in t= he current suggestion, I suspect that we can
have such motions posted= as new business, and at the same time tabled
until the next meeting= =2E Or just post them for discussion now while we
are still on repor= ts=2E

I am try= ing to transition myself out of active leadership/management of
the o= rganization=2E As such, I asked Karen Stein, the VP, and Curtis
Fran= ks, also on the Board, to seek via the mailing lists and other forms
= of communication, inputs from the community as to what LLG should be
= doing now and in the future to support and promote Lojban, and to make
recommendations for action=2E I would like them to report on what they found out, and what they think should be done (either by the membershi= p,
by the Board, or by volunteers)=2E

I haven= 't seen a report from Karen or Curtis=2E We really need to figure
ou= t what LLG will be doing as an organization in a post-lojbab
environm= ent, and the inputs from the community are essential=2E Please
repor= t=2E

I've aske= d mukti in his role as managing communications to work with
gleki and= report on various issues that have been raised regarding the
managem= ent of the Lojban web site=2E

Again this will have = to wait for mukti to have time to make such a report=2E

Any other members, Board or other= wise, are welcome to report on any
other projects/activities that the= y feel the membership should be aware
of, and any actions that they w= ould like LLG to take as an organization
in support of those activiti= es/projects=2E At this point, I am just
looking for reports and reco= mmendations, not motions=2E

My thanks to guskant an= d to gleki for their reports=2E It is not clear
that either of these= points to a motion to be considered by the
membership=2E If I am in= correct, please proceed as mentioned above for
byfy reports=2E
<= br />
After we get done wi= th all reports, we will call for new members, and
elect a new Board o= f Directors=2E

It is not clear that all reports tha= t will be made are completed, but in
the interests of moving the meet= ing along, I call for people wishing to
become members to speak up no= w, (along with any proposals by others for
people not currently prese= nt to become members - we will need to get
them to state that they wi= sh to be members, and get them added to this
mailing list)=2E
I will allow at least= a full week for all of the above reports to be
posted=2E Feel free = to discuss any reports, ask questions, etc=2E

I wil= l allow another week for any additional reports, as well as motions
r= egarding deferring of minutes and reports (which motions can be
secon= ded without waiting for me)=2E Then we will act on any motions as
ap= propriate and approve those new members=2E Then Board elections, short consideration of motions, and we adjourn=2E

Again, the follow= ing:
If for whateve= r reason I have not posted again for more than 2 weeks
from today, I = ask the VP to assume the chair and attempt to move the
meeting onward= , in line with the above and the Bylaw-directed agenda=2E

lojbab



Llg-members mailing list
Ll= g-members@lojban=2Eorg
http://mail=2Elojban=2Eorg/mailman/listinfo/llg-member= s
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