Received: from localhost ([::1]:59836 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1cfgdS-0004gN-BJ; Sun, 19 Feb 2017 21:35:42 -0800 Received: from mail-yw0-f172.google.com ([209.85.161.172]:36281) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1cfgdM-0004fV-R8 for llg-members@lojban.org; Sun, 19 Feb 2017 21:35:40 -0800 Received: by mail-yw0-f172.google.com with SMTP id v200so45234289ywc.3 for ; Sun, 19 Feb 2017 21:35:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=mu7rTLOIKz4yj+m2JiNh99Z63p4xWhLi5pPITv4LBJ4=; b=p2T25IxH2NdXzaIZ7MCm5abJq8UKXv0/mdeNb6OEFbLl138eFJvuU9oKcyMWTDcYt1 xcjf7OkmyttwaXiN0X6JklzuQ6AkqWpVbl5irt+fPma45YSD4M0AQ8z00i4NvReRyJSO NloYBcz9PNfSAUvJ1wJvLn043fDvHP+9hpHA0zYHl/mF/vIJYYxhPV8Zd2BvYfhUgE68 qgxQZScLDF+biy9Wqfa9nkYVkUpq4Hvr3kXNFFmXg4iEPIJ4LiI5ZqfpmvgNNFYoxoOH jM1c2vo0B55QONFoRuOI6sI+yUHeA/wMmyTvccblvv9xMBNPE2E4TYgRl8K85X6zAYaM ZjHA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=mu7rTLOIKz4yj+m2JiNh99Z63p4xWhLi5pPITv4LBJ4=; b=Dq3W8HwXbMO3cx2kVTtwWPhLHOxTAEU8EitU64P7uW8MywbJlDlZ68LMBBNz6iYnjW OmY76lkk8IwX5VT1X+NDZRjAdSB4aBqPtTJcoL2ndtKbTGKbziwt9nYOx0JQPhbiSry+ ffmJH2kKtsc9JdgwsGQ0c14ErQpURMP2HkxGQE6GxP3mVpgaMqs4+AAkegcEIVK0GKO4 AXj1RI/msd8sh4WR4sIuil8NT9lPLTMrjHAPl44gPm/vIoKSMneThuQfN+Ah6MSSWfGV q7skZdX3W1i3n86pjJ096sr/ANhukcI+vBK3XJiYJ6eAqyqGmNVIocU3LRFgukZYe2f7 EnOw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMke39nM+ulyfAItDDTNlcoJJgygJMXQEgurAofszDQxQp2SIqQ637D0TXYLTFsgK7RmSjpP6xhqVkA3iHo87Q== X-Received: by 10.129.99.136 with SMTP id x130mr16038456ywb.250.1487568930027; Sun, 19 Feb 2017 21:35:30 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.129.108.69 with HTTP; Sun, 19 Feb 2017 21:34:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <043FA78B-0C3C-4A53-A408-51C436A808C0@gmail.com> <921C62E1-F312-4C18-9D6D-5F8955981DDB@gmail.com> <3AEAC315-7D5E-41BE-87B8-D3C498978069@gmail.com> <87967684-FDC0-47DB-8E9B-302231642AC6@gmail.com> From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2017 08:34:49 +0300 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_bar: - Subject: Re: [Llg-members] 2016 Annual Meeting of the Logical Language Group, Inc. - call to order and roll call X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0193518512188093789==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============0193518512188093789== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114912baa743ba0548efa132 --001a114912baa743ba0548efa132 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Ok, I'm amending my proposa once again: In order to boost productive discussions members of LLG can unofficially meet on IRC and discuss topics. After that they designate a person who would post the result of their discussions to llg-members mailing list in the form of a motion or a proposal. After that members of LLG can officially vote for or against that proposal. They will still be able to participate in official discussions of that motion/proposal. This will save a great amount of time (>90% but stilll not 100%) but will change nothing in existing rules. 2017-02-20 1:22 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks : > I like the idea of a test period, for sure. I too have Karen's concerns, > but I am willing to give it a spin because I believe that progress is > probably too slow using our current methods, so some sort of fix would be > desirable. > > I agree that the conversation should be book-ended here. The initial > proposals and discussion takes place here. Then informal, quick discussion > is facilitated by IRC, and then the final period for expressing concerns > and official voting will take place here. I think that, if possible, no > voting should be allowed on the IRC because the final discussion (which > occurs here) could change someone's opinion - if we allow for voting > elsewhen/elsewhere, then it removes power from the final phase of > discussion. > > On Feb 19, 2017 16:13, "Karen Stein" wrote: > >> I am willing to try this method for one year as a test, since I am the >> only person expressing concerns at this point. I believe it is important >> that it be made clear to participants that it is an unofficial discussion >> and no decisions will be made until interested parties have participated in >> other modes as well. I propose the topic under discussion be posted here >> first and any responses be transcribed to IRC at the time of that >> discussion in order to be as inclusive as this method can be. >> >> At the board meeting following the meeting at which such discussion ours >> we should revisit this and solicited commentary both on IRC and in various >> chats to see what people feel about it. One important question should be, >> "Do you feel your questions, concerns, and ideas were listened to and >> addressed?" >> >> .karis. >> >> On February 19, 2017 12:52:18 AM EST, Gleki Arxokuna > gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> 2017-02-19 8:43 GMT+03:00 Karen Stein : >>> >>>> 1) Having informal discussions occur on IRC (or anywhere else) all the >>>> time is not the same as having discussions of specific proposals before the >>>> membership meeting occur in the same way. The latter are discussions of >>>> official policy and therefore, i believe, should exclude as few member as >>>> possible. IRC discussions do this in all the waits I've already posted. >>>> >>> >>> Okay, so I urge everyone who is able to participate in such discussion >>> to do so in the time that la mukti proposed earlier. It will be unofficial >>> and all the logs will be posted here for further comments by everyone. >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Llg-members mailing list >> Llg-members@lojban.org >> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > > --001a114912baa743ba0548efa132 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ok, I'm amending my proposa once again:=C2=A0

=
In order to boost productive discussions members of LLG can unof= ficially meet on IRC and discuss topics.
After that they designat= e a person who would post the result of their discussions to llg-members ma= iling list in the form of a motion or a proposal.

= After that members of LLG can officially vote for or against that proposal.=
They will still be able to participate in official discussions o= f that motion/proposal.

This will save a great amo= unt of time (>90% but stilll not 100%) but will change nothing in existi= ng rules.


2017-02-20 1:22 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks <curtis= .w.franks@gmail.com>:
I like the idea of a test period, for sure. I too have Karen&#= 39;s concerns, but I am willing to give it a spin because I believe that pr= ogress is probably too slow using our current methods, so some sort of fix = would be desirable.

I agree th= at the conversation should be book-ended here. The initial proposals and di= scussion takes place here. Then informal, quick discussion is facilitated b= y IRC, and then the final period for expressing concerns and official votin= g will take place here. I think that, if possible, no voting should be allo= wed on the IRC because the final discussion (which occurs here) could chang= e someone's opinion - if we allow for voting elsewhen/elsewhere, then i= t removes power from the final phase of discussion.

On F= eb 19, 2017 16:13, "Karen Stein" <comcaresvcs@gmail.com> wrote:
I am willing to try this method for one year as a test, since = I am the only person expressing concerns at this point. I believe it is imp= ortant that it be made clear to participants that it is an unofficial discu= ssion and no decisions will be made until interested parties have participa= ted in other modes as well. I propose the topic under discussion be posted = here first and any responses be transcribed to IRC at the time of that disc= ussion in order to be as inclusive as this method can be.

At the board meeting following the meeting at which such discussion ours we= should revisit this and solicited commentary both on IRC and in various ch= ats to see what people feel about it. One important question should be, &qu= ot;Do you feel your questions, concerns, and ideas were listened to and add= ressed?"

.karis.

On February 19, 2017 12:52:18 AM = EST, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmai= l.com> wrote:

= 2017-02-19 8:43 GMT+03:00 Karen Stein <comcaresvcs@gmail.com>:
1) Having informal discussions occur = on IRC (or anywhere else) all the time is not the same as having discussion= s of specific proposals before the membership meeting occur in the same way= . The latter are discussions of official policy and therefore, i believe, s= hould exclude as few member as possible. IRC discussions do this in all the= waits I've already posted.

Okay, so I = urge everyone who is able to participate in such discussion to do so in the= time that la mukti proposed earlier. It will be unofficial and all the log= s will be posted here for further comments by everyone.

_________________= ______________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members


_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members


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