Received: from localhost ([::1]:46402 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1dFnye-0005lG-Ab; Tue, 30 May 2017 13:42:52 -0700 Received: from mail-ua0-f172.google.com ([209.85.217.172]:36724) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1dFnyc-0005kM-6G for llg-members@lojban.org; Tue, 30 May 2017 13:42:51 -0700 Received: by mail-ua0-f172.google.com with SMTP id j17so58673271uag.3 for ; Tue, 30 May 2017 13:42:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=z0BYMEEkZPsyqIdaWddhPpHjPMIX9OcnBgpqVNsLy6A=; b=Nu+h6gYXE9ehZ5VvVueV1GygsIW0ho01Qz8NDELvEUsS5EhjcUGcDTWx1HcpWGnlXX P7/H6Grdt5A9+Ds9tjNpdbqRaRFX8ZlzvvixQN5TGInrJ4GIp+YbqnQ34ZTnfAX5M8td CdJM1ERxSNoQpvT69Ojl6qkyaUGOnrBKRoOnJBPaWLAg30/09yuAYSEFaPChRDjq6DZF TIXwCE69JXTrKQ/c25XgnQNb7GVg+ZrW4pGAfCTxZk+jrrxKSqS3h/jxoqlDdeD90YYp d+BBwWv//1ztc2We0sySF4k98ZEuW7o0nRGzwgvw2Q3Ifs2EDXvB2UQNenXeM9W90rn9 UiZw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=z0BYMEEkZPsyqIdaWddhPpHjPMIX9OcnBgpqVNsLy6A=; b=DQ42Tp4QflMgNS5Yt/HJAAkkfe1tZ0/I+m/1hdtC4sttTqLsAsq+54xdv1eEdqezlO wl6rq6NoUU+ED0+x8sBZawEGi19ozFZCP9jYyf5kSUZNAeQJbQAQmmCbQahf3pUlEL+P LicbnkU73jUguDX4emptiAEiOgWAqnXvZItuRNpjkBM+i5klipIJEt6wSrEnadunzP25 mmqlSLMtK7gUf7M6i7HqLO4AqwUiNSllt3D4MSkNzOD8m2hZTyxxEJpuFUe3Yz/Kv38C 1+ZalIwC4t+RcdhEowKMfXN4me38isviglj95TSL2maYdPWcnvlTx+AGTnfQqNKV1Crw kFQw== X-Gm-Message-State: AODbwcBF/AV0Q6sxyp1zQ6dkq32EE8IqZ2rj48pURHsKqdcYDf2K0I+e 4b4utWzKmvySIDVHr7D3g2S1+ZZ3mg== X-Received: by 10.176.76.207 with SMTP id e15mr2348311uag.135.1496176963685; Tue, 30 May 2017 13:42:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.77.193 with HTTP; Tue, 30 May 2017 13:42:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.176.77.193 with HTTP; Tue, 30 May 2017 13:42:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <19AE0EBA-AD2B-46BA-A03D-F2E77F52D7A8@gmail.com> References: <0457f7fe-dfd2-2ef6-9402-00d1dd15b239@lojban.org> <19AE0EBA-AD2B-46BA-A03D-F2E77F52D7A8@gmail.com> From: Curtis Franks Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 16:42:43 -0400 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_bar: ---- Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Request for clarification X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6818645244894326793==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============6818645244894326793== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f4030435a7b87111880550c3d86b" --f4030435a7b87111880550c3d86b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Do the other methods for discussion count as in-person, telephone, or 'by mails'? If not, then we need to technically conduct the meeting via email (or another example of those methods, aforementioned) as we have been or to change the by-laws. The meeting perhaps would be informally facilitated/quickened via the other means, but it could not technically be conducted by them unless they count as one of those three methods. On Apr 22, 2017 17:19, "Karen Stein" wrote: > Lojbab's belief that discussion between meetings occur here is not what I > understood the proposal to be. My understanding was that discussion was > going to happen at random times using any and all the discussion methods > available to at least some members of the broad lojban community. > > Since there is such a difference between these two I did have one item of > business to address at this time. I would like to have this clarified. We > all need to know before we adjourn what the procedures we are using for our > trial such as the means with which everyone is to be notified of topics, > and when and where such discussions will be happening. If it is to be > totally freeform, please make this clear. > > .karis. > > On April 22, 2017 2:39:03 PM EDT, Bob LeChevalier > wrote: >> >> On 4/20/2017 8:03 PM, guskant wrote: >> >>> 2017-04-13 20:31 GMT+00:00 Bob LeChevalier : >>> >>>> I'll allow a full week for responses, until end of day 21 April. If there >>>> are motions that need to be decided, they need a second, and then you may >>>> proceed to debate without me explicitly calling for it. I will try to pay >>>> attention in order to keep things moving. If there are no motions by then, >>>> we should adjourn. >>>> >>> >>> We have a motion that was implicitly seconded by Gleki. >>> The motion is entitled "Motion: liberate lojban.org to community >>> volunteers, and move the official contents to another website", and >>> archived here: >>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/private/llg-members/2017-February/001357.html >>> >>> A reply of Gleki in the following part of discussion implies that he >>> seconded the motion. >>> >>> 2017-02-20 14:38 GMT+00:00 guskant : >>> >>>> 2017-02-20 11:14 GMT+00:00 Gleki Arxokuna : >>>> >>>>> Using github.com for official repositories can be dangerous since Github is >>>>> not own by LLG. >>>>> I suggest >>>>> 1. still use Github >>>>> 2. make synced backups of all official repositories on Github at servers >>>>> owned by LLG or provided to LLG for free. >>>>> >>>> >>>> So you agree to the optional suggestion that requires the motion being >>>> realized. It implies that you agree to the motion. Say "I second!" >>>> I hope this motion makes you really {gleki} because you will become >>>> not being blamed for your abuse of power on the "official" website. >>> >>> >>> >>> I guess you all want to adjourn the meeting as soon as possible >>> without discussing any important matter, and I give up discussion >>> until the meeting of 2017. >>> >> >> I think we indeed want to get the meeting adjourned (separate message >> coming). But as I understand the concept that mukti has advanced, the >> discussion should primarily take place OUTSIDE the meeting, in advance >> of a formal decision at a meeting. >> >> Once the 2016 meeting ends, this mailing list still exists with all >> voting members enrolled. So people can and should be talking up their >> ideas for community action (the regular Lojban list, as well as the IRC >> Lojban channel(s) also exist for such discussion). >> >> This discussion can be tied to a specific proposal, such as the >> paragraphs that you quoted above, or it can be less restricted, with the >> goal of producing a motion that will be formally voted on at the next >> (2017) annual meeting. mukti will call for motions IN ADVANCE of that >> annual meeting, and those motions presented in advance will constitute >> the agenda for the meeting. The meeting then moves along at a much >> faster speed, because most/all of the discussion has taken place before >> the meeting. I believe that one or more planned IRC sessions also fit >> into the proposal as well. >> >> If discussion produces a consensus and speed is desired, that consensus >> can be passed to the Board of directors which can approve most ideas at >> any time of the year, and that also will reduce the time required for >> the formal annual meeting. >> >> mukti and others should feel free to correct my interpretation of the >> concept. >> >> lojbab >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Llg-members mailing list >> Llg-members@lojban.org >> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > > --f4030435a7b87111880550c3d86b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Do the other methods for discussion count as in-person, t= elephone, or 'by mails'? If not, then we need to technically conduc= t the meeting via email (or another example of those methods, aforementione= d) as we have been or to change the by-laws. The meeting=C2=A0perhaps would be informally facilitated/quicken= ed via the other means, but it could not technically be conducted by them u= nless they count as one of those three methods.

On Apr 22, 2017 17:19, "Kar= en Stein" <comcaresvcs@gma= il.com> wrote:
On April 22, 2017 2:39:03 PM EDT,= Bob LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
On 4/20/2017 8:03 PM, guskant w=
rote:
 2017-04-13 20:31 GMT+00:=
00 Bob LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org>:
 =
I'll allow a full week for responses, until end of day 21 April.  If th=
ere
 are motions that need to be decided, they need a second, and then y=
ou may
 proceed to debate without me explicitly calling for it.  I will =
try to pay
 attention in order to keep things moving.  If there are no m=
otions by then,
 we should adjourn.

 We have a motio=
n that was implicitly seconded by Gleki.
 The motion is entitled "M=
otion: liberate lojban.org<=
/a> to community
 volunteers, and move the official contents to another =
website", and
 archived here:
 h=
ttp://mail.lojban.org/mailman/private/llg-members/2017-February/0=
01357.html

 A reply of Gleki in the following part of discussion=
 implies that he
 seconded the motion.

 2017-02-20 14:38 GMT+00:0=
0 guskant <gu=
sni.kantu@gmail.com>:
 2=
017-02-20 11:14 GMT+00:00 Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>:
 Using github.com =
for official repositories can be dangerous since Github is
 not own by L=
LG.
 I suggest
 1. still use Github
 2. make synced backups of all=
 official repositories on Github at servers
 owned by LLG or provided to=
 LLG for free.

 So you agree to the optional suggestion=
 that requires the motion being
 realized. It implies that you agree to =
the motion. Say "I second!"
 I hope this motion makes you real=
ly {gleki} because you will become
 not being blamed for your abuse of p=
ower on the "official" website.


 I guess you =
all want to adjourn the meeting as soon as possible
 without discussing =
any important matter, and I give up discussion
 until the meeting of 201=
7.

I think we indeed want to get the meeting adjourned =
(separate message 
coming).  But as I understand the concept that mukti =
has advanced, the 
discussion should primarily take place OUTSIDE the me=
eting, in advance 
of a formal decision at a meeting.

Once the 20=
16 meeting ends, this mailing list still exists with all 
voting members=
 enrolled.  So people can and should be talking up their 
ideas for comm=
unity action (the regular Lojban list, as well as the IRC 
Lojban channe=
l(s) also exist for such discussion).

This discussion can be tied to=
 a specific proposal, such as the 
paragraphs that you quoted above, or =
it can be less restricted, with the 
goal of producing a motion that wil=
l be formally voted on at the next 
(2017) annual meeting.  mukti will c=
all for motions IN ADVANCE of that 
annual meeting, and those motions pr=
esented in advance will constitute 
the agenda for the meeting.  The mee=
ting then moves along at a much 
faster speed, because most/all of the d=
iscussion has taken place before 
the meeting.  I believe that one or mo=
re planned IRC sessions also fit 
into the proposal as well.

If d=
iscussion produces a consensus and speed is desired, that consensus 
can=
 be passed to the Board of directors which can approve most ideas at 
an=
y time of the year, and that also will reduce the time required for 
the=
 formal annual meeting.

mukti and others should feel free to correct=
 my interpretation of the 
concept.

lojbab



Llg=
-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members

__= _____________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members

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