Received: from localhost ([::1]:34856 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eTOFl-00039x-Rp; Mon, 25 Dec 2017 00:36:57 -0800 Received: from mail-yb0-f179.google.com ([209.85.213.179]:34332) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eTOFE-00038w-2X for llg-members@lojban.org; Mon, 25 Dec 2017 00:36:26 -0800 Received: by mail-yb0-f179.google.com with SMTP id z11so19966331ybm.1 for ; Mon, 25 Dec 2017 00:36:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=sYOKVpU7S1nfTT89r+ZLg5UTSAkcw1JMxCcgvHSSIr0=; b=jXMs0fE0VIKdPu7Ta+511uWTTzEA3lmWPiAeWjAfs8Zc308kKeLcSGLk1JnhEg7lSf B+16D6TIPVaQQEmPIvSGjIoUqUANFA03IBgeW88IraRFMkcmVgwe2YM0QCfRtRBvjx8w O7fiCtmdefqirNu6V1O/UG6BRBaAUg1zn2KUy1IEWVVigxxaSpyp51azu75i/k6H4NxF smiOHP/HFXATYK7Nuc19dzW3mNMY/TatTt4Hu35Yka5MeYcVUrqei35Je0aVPBkAKseq yoOLQzgALFj8SsYCsxC3+KjzOMPKA28XM8YuOBpH/dYnkDMJ/bck7t0olBFsdy3k+q+m pi5g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=sYOKVpU7S1nfTT89r+ZLg5UTSAkcw1JMxCcgvHSSIr0=; b=LyaimTIrG1zae+2Ef8Mca5G4Hx7AOTAgrqYFz4vizVQT9SumgYwpVCy8yyCsDApEQ3 A2N1bYfeljgMJIVKjDDgiCPVlcvNP79N23deenIvniUQsfVKgywCQPJH3teEx2jpU0Hg QDW6lISimTEonXzqRRa9wg6Yoxq3dmOCv4U/pJ53+4r6p8b7nyYGB+ZERCCrRgL367jk CbVEjXXXM9tNFvzHYBzvjh3meC5kfHhbEKpfft3bNaQBGEBtwO/xqzw6uGJOmff8vKxD Ul4UjCcI8TKfx+UQXE+U6PYsuvGJvB8Hn8KL4FSaOXMzUtmV2RpRS9EaD7DWd7ylrjhn /zdQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mII3L6U7QUJAs8PyS9lS8pjq+Fy2Cjub47j7xhX/7T2efDZmVXa KBZezhf9CGCRgwEgcgv5wP6h5HxFh9aSK6NtxF4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBouevO8Z+8IqFB7fgpUJQ59ZnXQKyp92TLmR1krrJZweyFurfvKb1FRbdZVjj2eQxE3r+ZQF3ybBa8+VUf6yVUQ= X-Received: by 10.37.250.18 with SMTP id b18mr14093909ybe.371.1514190977159; Mon, 25 Dec 2017 00:36:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.135.9 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Dec 2017 00:36:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.37.135.9 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Dec 2017 00:36:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <7074953.2veMK8YGUJ@caracal> From: Curtis Franks Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2017 03:36:16 -0500 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_bar: - Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Unfinished Business: BPFK X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4064151432852709544==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============4064151432852709544== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045ea16650d8700561260f95" --f403045ea16650d8700561260f95 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I generally prefer grassroots involvement in these matters for now. Maybe we can compensate people for time and travel to seminars or events, but we mostly just want to encourage people to get the word out and to bring new blood into the community. Mostly, I expect this to be done through a bunch of dedicated clubs which are composed of people who naturally are interested in such efforts anyway; they presumably would host events for themselves and develop projects for their membership. We would just try to promote the spawning of such clubs and to organize a framework for inter-club or global interactions, as well as a place to share or publish their projects, methods and lessons, etc. Again, the only environment which can sustain such a club and of which I can presently think is that of a university, although I welcome other suggestions. Conventions or one-off events are good for initial recruitment, but we need the local infrastructure to really promote long-term engagement. The event would gain a newcomer's attention, but it does not capture them. We need to make it so that when they return home, they have somewhere and someone to turn for involvement in a consistent and enduring manner. That requires local clubs or organizations, preferably strong ones which are full of 'team spirit' and purpose. So, we build the clubs first. Then we advertise and recruit, including via small-scale events, and we slowly spread. That should be easy enough. :P ___ We should make formal reply and address guskant's concerns. I am not sure whether or not the LLG is dead, or whether or not it should be dead. But I believe that we can find a purpose and function for it if we try and I refuse to give up on Lojban. On Dec 24, 2017 21:26, "guskant" wrote: > 2017-12-24 14:12 GMT+00:00 Creative Care Services : > > If shimmering who speaks lojban wants a subsidy to help them attend an > event > > to present then they will need to write a proposal to the Board as far in > > advance of the event as possible. If it is written in any language other > > than English a translation is appreciated as that is the common language > > best understood by it's members at this time. The Board will then make a > > decision. What criteria it uses will be discussed at the next Board > meeting. > > Anyone can present ideas at that meeting. > > > > .karis. > > > > doi karis > > I don't think any advertisements or meetings for Lojban need official > support. > > I guess the most effective advertisements ever were Arika Okrent's In > the Land of Invented Languages and Ron Hale-Evans's Mind Performance > Hacks: > http://inthelandofinventedlanguages.com/ > http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596101534.do > There is also a famous novelist who wrote about Lojban in his book in > Japanese: > http://bookclub.kodansha.co.jp/product?isbn=9784062159333 > None of them received any official support. > > There were also some events and meetings that did not receive any > official support. > > I observed there is or was an active Lojban learners' group in > Augsburg, Germany. There used to be some physical meetings for > learning Lojban in Tokyo, Japan. A lojbanists' group sometimes sells > their journal about Lojban including their small works in Lojban in > big events of physical market in Tokyo, Japan. I remember also some > people talked about lojban in some meetings for computer science. I > also talked about Lojban in a philosophers' meeting in Tokyo, Japan: > https://youtu.be/lzqhNYCWKLo > None of them received any official support. > > To conclude, Any official supports are not required for > advertisements, events or meetings. They will spontaneously occur if > someone wants. Any events for Lojban organized around your place will > be appreciated, but it is not necessary to be organized by the > official body. > > I agree to dissolving the LLG. It is actually dead. One of the pieces > of evidence is that we have not yet published any official reply to > the open letter to the LLG that was posted two years ago: > http://guskant.github.io/lojbo/open_letter/open_letter.html > Some other pieces of evidence are that the LLG has not yet resolve the > important problems that I posted for these two years. > > I wish the balance would be contributed for education of poor > children, though I don't know whether it is possible under the US law. > > Before dissolving the LLG, however, a concrete fossil of the official > documents, especially of the CLL and the BPFK works, is neccessary for > future Lojbanists including me. I began to creat a large commentary on > the CLL in the form of video series: > https://mentulimu.github.io/ > For such a commentary, stable references are necessary. Robin's server > is not reliable: what if he suddenly becomes unavailable? As I > repeatedly discussed, we need another place where plural responsible > people and no others can manage the contents. I suggested using > github, but any other stable places other than a person's server are > acceptable. > > mi'e la guskant > > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > --f403045ea16650d8700561260f95 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I generally prefer grassroots involvement in these matter= s for now. Maybe we can compensate people for time and travel to seminars o= r events, but we mostly just want to encourage people to get the word out a= nd to bring new blood into the community. Mostly, I expect this to be done = through a bunch of dedicated clubs which are composed of people who natural= ly are interested in such efforts anyway; they presumably would host events= for themselves and develop projects for their membership. We would just tr= y to promote the spawning of such clubs and to organize a framework for int= er-club or global interactions, as well as a place to share or publish thei= r projects, methods and lessons, etc. Again, the only environment which can= sustain such a club and of which I can presently think is that of a univer= sity, although I welcome other suggestions.

Conventions or one-off events are good for initial recruitmen= t, but we need the local infrastructure to really promote long-term engagem= ent. The event would gain a newcomer's attention, but it does not captu= re them. We need to make it so that when they return home, they have somewh= ere and someone to turn for involvement in a consistent and enduring manner= . That requires local clubs or organizations, preferably strong ones which = are full of 'team spirit' and purpose. So, we build the clubs first= . Then we advertise and recruit, including via small-scale events, and we s= lowly spread. That should be easy enough. :P

___

We should make formal reply and addre= ss guskant's concerns. I am not sure whether or not the LLG is dead, or= whether or not it should be dead. But I believe that we can find a purpose= and function for it if we try and I refuse to give up on Lojban.

On = Dec 24, 2017 21:26, "guskant" <gusni.kantu@gmail.com> wrote:
2017-12-24 14:12 GMT+00:00 Creative Care Service= s <comcaresvcs@gmail.com>= ;:
> If shimmering who speaks lojban wants a subsidy to help them attend an= event
> to present then they will need to write a proposal to the Board as far= in
> advance of the event as possible. If it is written in any language oth= er
> than English a translation is appreciated as that is the common langua= ge
> best understood by it's members at this time. The Board will then = make a
> decision. What criteria it uses will be discussed at the next Board me= eting.
> Anyone can present ideas at that meeting.
>
> .karis.
>

doi karis

I don't think any advertisements or meetings for Lojban need official s= upport.

I guess the most effective advertisements ever were Arika Okrent's In the Land of Invented Languages and Ron Hale-Evans's Mind Performance Hacks:
http://inthelandofinventedlanguages.com/
http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596101534.d= o
There is also a famous novelist who wrote about Lojban in his book in Japan= ese:
http://bookclub.kodansha.co.jp/produ= ct?isbn=3D9784062159333
None of them received any official support.

There were also some events and meetings that did not receive any
official support.

I observed there is or was an active Lojban learners' group in
Augsburg, Germany. There used to be some physical meetings for
learning Lojban in Tokyo, Japan. A lojbanists' group sometimes sells their journal about Lojban including their small works in Lojban in
big events of physical market in Tokyo, Japan. I remember also some
people talked about lojban in some meetings for computer science. I
also talked about Lojban in a philosophers' meeting in Tokyo, Japan: https://youtu.be/lzqhNYCWKLo
None of them received any official support.

To conclude, Any official supports are not required for
advertisements, events or meetings. They will spontaneously occur if
someone wants. Any events for Lojban organized around your place will
be appreciated, but it is not necessary to be organized by the
official body.

I agree to dissolving the LLG. It is actually dead. One of the pieces
of evidence is that we have not yet published any official reply to
the open letter to the LLG that was posted two years ago:
http://guskant.github.io/lojbo/open_= letter/open_letter.html
Some other pieces of evidence are that the LLG has not yet resolve the
important problems that I posted for these two years.

I wish the balance would be contributed for education of poor
children, though I don't know whether it is possible under the US law.<= br>
Before dissolving the LLG, however, a concrete fossil of the official
documents, especially of the CLL and the BPFK works, is neccessary for
future Lojbanists including me. I began to creat a large commentary on
the CLL in the form of video series:
https://mentulimu.github.io/
For such a commentary, stable references are necessary. Robin's server<= br> is not reliable: what if he suddenly becomes unavailable? As I
repeatedly discussed, we need another place where plural responsible
people and no others can manage the contents. I suggested using
github, but any other stable places other than a person's server are acceptable.

mi'e la guskant

_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members
--f403045ea16650d8700561260f95-- --===============4064151432852709544== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Llg-members mailing list Llg-members@lojban.org http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members --===============4064151432852709544==--