Received: from localhost ([::1]:41132 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eUpXT-0006NG-Ta; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 23:57:11 -0800 Received: from mail-yw0-f172.google.com ([209.85.161.172]:44616) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eUpWy-0006Lr-JH for llg-members@lojban.org; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 23:56:41 -0800 Received: by mail-yw0-f172.google.com with SMTP id m129so9216947ywb.11 for ; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 23:56:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=FxsOxrr/CCIR9q6qsQq9dd5Rjtdz+tkoce0/trVttC4=; b=nUJbvZVL/hYhebWhTJvYC5lbQMa8+d3iT3a/GBMZtqpw/dvOKg+enhdPL8zmujiOw9 mTDmacu1sOFHZ6IOTQd0Xe5wTrbfoktQRXPRnHK4KLnQK9S67EYO3IoZawPkiZBeTHoy FEyn5MNqLgS7mqv+aPzkHmIkzPjgiMac6EwSldt10EJd7ahO6TETTdCsrgnK4Awc3NBL oJb/P82ScxA04Q4ySqpmWKorCiECCAsmEEz0uAiPznrNvsLmPVhFlQdiKAr4FCl9nhon YFVit3KJ5xm+b/aVkpwXkNajEMKftqPxBxTcxKpdBNXnZDpEnKq7aVnxQNRfmtmBoi72 cNAw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=FxsOxrr/CCIR9q6qsQq9dd5Rjtdz+tkoce0/trVttC4=; b=JV9f7xDZyksgbBUwFIT1J/VkZ3/EA6ZgtM1uJRD/IFbWjr1sjQWAMUyHZkeQST0feM z7y/VRS7YhcjULJosWeZ5cbiiwh4o8ngtvT+XYMmHlaM8IVgajZt7ztveqghIhRjlvxd aN6OxwBlnA51kLmRB+PoqI6iE3OAQZpyaJZSLP50IvpiklKOTrptx3Mo8kM1FpW3gH6H wFTmyRaWVTg+icxgbfke0oJO1/BWQY4fQ7Uj4vW558L++4ziXPKikrq3FPHfqFmo7b0v lQLVFgPUvkf1juIBQZuBVYDo9loiYBGpaxAXusbSOy6DEhdOcCDju8WOTF5voG1yYD9d F4aw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mKnoYEM+c4pdTk/13DSEzsS6A+gzD+sFYYV+y0ogUzdv57G1XDI 76n4tA/DcYKHRYoBxipttZwea16J28I/WpTnyO0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBothw46JGV2UL2wCbLdq1ct5ggoWlu+fF/dfmFxH/DZW4ChDL/ZnktN+Hfy5gWr2b07hC2NzIyX4jSyxuTy3aeA= X-Received: by 10.129.175.72 with SMTP id x8mr23038435ywj.277.1514534193648; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 23:56:33 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.135.9 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 23:56:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.37.135.9 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Dec 2017 23:56:33 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Curtis Franks Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 02:56:33 -0500 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_bar: - Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Motion proposal - Unofficialness Disclaimer X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6583699111570203737==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============6583699111570203737== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045f29289cd9cc056175f8db" --f403045f29289cd9cc056175f8db Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Definitely in English. I would also suggest that the language of the notification match the primary non-Lojbanic language of the article or content. The exact wording would have to be worked out later (and we could delegate such responsibility and details). It might be helpful for the notice to include a link to a page describing what the disclaimer means and how it translates into other languages; it should also automatically generate a category (and page listing all members of the category) for so-disclaimed pages/contents and add the relevant page or content's section to that category. I would add it either to the top of a page or section, as appropriate. The exact format, design, and immediacy of presence of the notice (including its size, boldness/typeface characteristics, and background color) would have to be figured out and authority over such matters should be delegated. (I am aware that such notices exist. The motion would make notice obligatory - insofar as that is possible). ___ Can someone link all relevant portions of old discussions about this matter after the motion gains a second or if it seems like providing that information may be helpful for some ongoing, lively conversation? ___ I would like to remind everyone that proposal of a motion or its seconding does not imply a vote in approval of or for that or any resultant/finalized motion. On Dec 29, 2017 2:42 AM, "Gleki Arxokuna" wrote: > > > 2017-12-29 10:25 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks : > >> I move that: All non-official pages or content on *.lojban.org must >> contain a disclaimer stating, at least, that the website is owned and >> managed by voluntary >> people, and that the marked contents are not necessarily harmonized with >> the official design of Lojban and may not reflect, let alone perfectly >> comply with, official specifications of the same. >> >> (This motion is intended to satisfy part of guskant's desires, related >> elsewhere. I copied a quasi-motion by them nearly verbatim.) >> > > In which language? We already have a message for pages in Lojban: > https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Template:Jbocre > in English: > https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Template:Jbocre/en > and probably in Japanese: > https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Template:Jbocre/ja > > Should this message reflect the language currently selected by mediawiki'= s > user? > > Where would you like to put such message? In the footer? > > ___ >> >> It is a little premature, but I raise the following concerns: >> =E2=80=A2 How do we decide which content should be so disclaimed? What >> constitutes "official" content for these purposes? How do we review cont= ent >> and, later, disclaimers - particularly in a fashion which is quick enoug= h >> to handle edits made by users. >> =E2=80=A2 Do we even have the authority to demand or enforce such discla= imers? >> The website is a wiki and, so, can be edited by anyone and can presumabl= y >> develop its own community standards. >> =E2=80=A2 Is this disclaimer sufficient and sufficiently descriptive for= the >> relevant purposes and desires? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Llg-members mailing list >> Llg-members@lojban.org >> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > > --f403045f29289cd9cc056175f8db Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Definitely in English. I would also suggest that the lang= uage of the notification match the primary non-Lojbanic language of the art= icle or content. The exact wording would have to be worked out later (and w= e could delegate such responsibility and details). It might be helpful for = the notice to include a link to a page describing what the disclaimer means= and how it translates into other languages; it should also automatically g= enerate a category (and page listing all members of the category) for so-di= sclaimed pages/contents and add the relevant page or content's section = to that category.

I would add it either to the top of a page or s= ection, as appropriate.

The exact= format, design, and immediacy of presence of the notice (including its siz= e, boldness/typeface characteristics, and background color) would have to b= e figured out and authority over such matters should be delegated.

(I am aware that such notic= es exist. The motion would make notice obligatory - insofar as that is poss= ible).

___

Can someone link all relevant portion= s of old discussions about this matter after the motion gains a second or i= f it seems like providing that information may be helpful for some ongoing,= lively conversation?

__= _

I would like to remind= everyone that proposal of a motion or its seconding does not imply a vote = in approval of or for that or any resultant/finalized motion.

On Dec 29, 20= 17 2:42 AM, "Gleki Arxokuna" <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:


2017-12-29 10:25 GMT+03:00 Curtis F= ranks <curtis.w.franks@gmail.com>:
I move that: All non-official pages or c= ontent on *.lojban.org=C2=A0must contain a disclaimer stating, at least, that the webs= ite is owned and managed by voluntary
people, and that the marked contents are not necessarily harmonized wit= h the official design of Lojban and may not reflect, let alone perfectly co= mply with, official specifications of the same.

(This = motion is intended to satisfy part of guskant's desires, related elsewh= ere. I copied a quasi-motion by them nearly verbatim.)

In which language? We already have a message= for pages in Lojban:=C2=A0
in English:
and probably in Japanese:
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Template:Jbocre/ja

Should this message reflect the language currently se= lected by mediawiki's user?

Where would you li= ke to put such message? In the footer?

___

It is a little premature, but I raise the following concerns:=
=E2=80=A2 How do we decide which content should be so disclaimed? What= constitutes "official" content for these purposes? How do we rev= iew content and, later, disclaimers - particularly in a fashion which is qu= ick enough to handle edits made by users.
=E2=80=A2 Do we even h= ave the authority to demand or enforce such disclaimers? The website is a w= iki and, so, can be edited by anyone and can presumably develop its own com= munity standards.
=E2=80=A2 Is this disclaimer sufficient and su= fficiently descriptive for the relevant purposes and desires?
<= /div>
_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members



_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members

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