Received: from [::1] (port=46078 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eUrA9-0003Ub-7m; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 01:41:13 -0800 Received: from mail-wm0-f47.google.com ([74.125.82.47]:45705) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eUr9d-0003Sj-F5 for llg-members@lojban.org; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 01:40:42 -0800 Received: by mail-wm0-f47.google.com with SMTP id 9so47435701wme.4 for ; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 01:40:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Mx/NiOcHtR5p76HBfuGwkXRoIw3D29HLea7kS2A9RM0=; b=q6+1K3dSDKCNKogQSkNtmz4LTrjPldf8FmCK5FQXQEbnccybbl+gkIncuodxXsp4wD HCOFJ1ibhMkS8014+B1jDegKZZZ3fmIdP7EDkQHAp7XR8B4KIEryQxQyMho8RweAvPWe aQjkH3GQ7P9NiNfYSJOkMWvQeXAg55TgjnMrPLE1DhgZEYKmcrod8qkh/G01Rma85r8a pE045pPoe6AJ7sbNj6AEqaH4gL7xabYj4AFDeH368R3negFa5vRuNUzx1LHfQGCdGJLS 90DCGflY7AznMl6RPNL6CQ5ode3HIWbOZqWOLvfMQOBaXUP6AD2N0mvZtx/HZieuwl1M HoQg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=Mx/NiOcHtR5p76HBfuGwkXRoIw3D29HLea7kS2A9RM0=; b=XGy4zJvwrOsO9mVSISouL51ybuiThkFxighyNyEReljx1cke4xyd/1Xmk54NeHAMsw XIgv1GI49d+akwMEBF4+JOrsF09w6cfij+pi8Ehj2Yju8iMwj9dJYpw+zAx3Djn9S6q/ ch1e1lQFtYDUIN2EZSZCaDBwe19JUJpuNjBM3zoNgII8AVff1pPRmEObBqiGsqjiporz cfI0MQPXxKSoEgrkl24OX3fpZO4J+xYsW1Almy7nkO4k7OdLSJJuZV9drgi8TRdR2YCH igoEaM6YxC62cx4juzhze4s+aUyuzqRz8Ru4JHFlIJGVma9ePG2H7yxno0isXv++Zqms xyIw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mKpJcFWfFxUbe/KH/sKneCIJWQtupUuXrOIy29RoimJ9afB550R Rbf9w5y45rMYmY/y+skTW7ST6qMBMODBJ+ONmQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBotxq/bzKIcsi9OioELaaDR1yKDhwdO42qspHnc5PlBnjs9/lyKdcSeGr3gsAr5IyhIpNRx6lNy0slDEPKsktvM= X-Received: by 10.80.177.153 with SMTP id m25mr45226979edd.181.1514540434359; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 01:40:34 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.173.219 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 01:39:53 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 12:39:53 +0300 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Motion proposal - Unofficialness Disclaimer X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1636166754325302754==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============1636166754325302754== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045c228e968bd90561776c3d" --f403045c228e968bd90561776c3d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2017-12-29 10:56 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks : > Definitely in English. > So, non-English pages will continue to be official? I would also suggest that the language of the notification match the > primary non-Lojbanic language of the article or content. The exact wordin= g > would have to be worked out later (and we could delegate such > responsibility and details). It might be helpful for the notice to includ= e > a link to a page describing what the disclaimer means and how it translat= es > into other languages; it should also automatically generate a category (a= nd > page listing all members of the category) for so-disclaimed pages/content= s > and add the relevant page or content's section to that category. > > I would add it either to the top of a page or section, as appropriate. > > The exact format, design, and immediacy of presence of the notice > (including its size, boldness/typeface characteristics, and background > color) would have to be figured out and authority over such matters shoul= d > be delegated. > to whom? > > (I am aware that such notices exist. The motion would make notice > obligatory - insofar as that is possible). > > ___ > > Can someone link all relevant portions of old discussions about this > matter after the motion gains a second or if it seems like providing that > information may be helpful for some ongoing, lively conversation? > > ___ > > I would like to remind everyone that proposal of a motion or its secondin= g > does not imply a vote in approval of or for that or any resultant/finaliz= ed > motion. > > On Dec 29, 2017 2:42 AM, "Gleki Arxokuna" > wrote: > >> >> >> 2017-12-29 10:25 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks : >> >>> I move that: All non-official pages or content on *.lojban.org must >>> contain a disclaimer stating, at least, that the website is owned and >>> managed by voluntary >>> people, and that the marked contents are not necessarily harmonized wit= h >>> the official design of Lojban and may not reflect, let alone perfectly >>> comply with, official specifications of the same. >>> >>> (This motion is intended to satisfy part of guskant's desires, related >>> elsewhere. I copied a quasi-motion by them nearly verbatim.) >>> >> >> In which language? We already have a message for pages in Lojban: >> https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Template:Jbocre >> in English: >> https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Template:Jbocre/en >> and probably in Japanese: >> https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Template:Jbocre/ja >> >> Should this message reflect the language currently selected by >> mediawiki's user? >> >> Where would you like to put such message? In the footer? >> >> ___ >>> >>> It is a little premature, but I raise the following concerns: >>> =E2=80=A2 How do we decide which content should be so disclaimed? What >>> constitutes "official" content for these purposes? How do we review con= tent >>> and, later, disclaimers - particularly in a fashion which is quick enou= gh >>> to handle edits made by users. >>> =E2=80=A2 Do we even have the authority to demand or enforce such discl= aimers? >>> The website is a wiki and, so, can be edited by anyone and can presumab= ly >>> develop its own community standards. >>> =E2=80=A2 Is this disclaimer sufficient and sufficiently descriptive fo= r the >>> relevant purposes and desires? >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Llg-members mailing list >>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Llg-members mailing list >> Llg-members@lojban.org >> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > > --f403045c228e968bd90561776c3d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2017-12-29 10:56 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks <curtis.w.franks@gma= il.com>:
= Definitely in English.

So, non-Englis= h pages will continue to be official?


I would also suggest that t= he language of the notification match the primary non-Lojbanic language of = the article or content. The exact wording would have to be worked out later= (and we could delegate such responsibility and details). It might be helpf= ul for the notice to include a link to a page describing what the disclaime= r means and how it translates into other languages; it should also automati= cally generate a category (and page listing all members of the category) fo= r so-disclaimed pages/contents and add the relevant page or content's s= ection to that category.

I would add it either to the top of a pag= e or section, as appropriate.

The= exact format, design, and immediacy of presence of the notice (including i= ts size, boldness/typeface characteristics, and background color) would hav= e to be figured out and authority over such matters should be delegated.

to whom?
=C2= =A0

(I am aware that such notices exist. The motion would make notice obli= gatory - insofar as that is possible).

___

Can s= omeone link all relevant portions of old discussions about this matter afte= r the motion gains a second or if it seems like providing that information = may be helpful for some ongoing, lively conversation?

___

I would like to remind everyone that proposal of a motion or its = seconding does not imply a vote in approval of or for that or any resultant= /finalized motion.

On Dec 29, 2017 = 2:42 AM, "Gleki Arxokuna" <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:


2017-12-29 10:25 GMT= +03:00 Curtis Franks <curtis.w.franks@gmail.com>:
I move that: All non-offi= cial pages or content on *.lojban.org=C2=A0must contain a disclaimer stating, at least= , that the website is owned and managed by voluntary
people, and that the marked contents are not necessarily= harmonized with the official design of Lojban and may not reflect, let alo= ne perfectly comply with, official specifications of the same.

(This motion is intended to satisfy part of guskant's desires,= related elsewhere. I copied a quasi-motion by them nearly verbatim.)

In which language? We already= have a message for pages in Lojban:=C2=A0
in English:
and probab= ly in Japanese:

Should this message reflect the langu= age currently selected by mediawiki's user?

Wh= ere would you like to put such message? In the footer?

=
___

It is a little premature, but I raise the following = concerns:
=E2=80=A2 How do we decide which content should be so = disclaimed? What constitutes "official" content for these purpose= s? How do we review content and, later, disclaimers - particularly in a fas= hion which is quick enough to handle edits made by users.
=E2=80= =A2 Do we even have the authority to demand or enforce such disclaimers? Th= e website is a wiki and, so, can be edited by anyone and can presumably dev= elop its own community standards.
=E2=80=A2 Is this disclaimer s= ufficient and sufficiently descriptive for the relevant purposes and desire= s?

_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members



_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members


_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members


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