Received: from localhost ([::1]:47412 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eUzkX-0000M3-A8; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 10:51:21 -0800 Received: from mail-yb0-f178.google.com ([209.85.213.178]:46055) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eUzk1-0000In-5G for llg-members@lojban.org; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 10:50:50 -0800 Received: by mail-yb0-f178.google.com with SMTP id k189so1545778ybc.12 for ; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 10:50:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=iM3Q0HZ6HIpNAUrGhFelwc8yQUejG/Mi9zqwA5igPjY=; b=Tq4ChUa/jRiOPu0D5NBXU4GlEZEkvRWqJQg6xR7fhgm9H4N8sUKmbNqEmdhjzTv1jO TXf9mwBoiYd7xtnzh8B+GulsSzy9yMqe4dKQykBMCJ63onVmRRZZtYjgXwxmKw7Bx31d q4GLeUrVwDFfLRLk3l5Wnb60dt28vUjfRpYLbaA2HddGHvRdfwa3gcInSgPxckMWov3i c74v5nZ1RI25iUPjQUueZRU5VkwycHtWPlrNs3OwzqMwupg5+RdHSVqHNdvDbjFd5gic xWR79qMecNJYvCeR2DSsoGMpH1Qqt/zHKU0HMpaJ8oS8P6o5kUNRPd6rH0Ib0zuBqfJm FAuw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=iM3Q0HZ6HIpNAUrGhFelwc8yQUejG/Mi9zqwA5igPjY=; b=FzK/1Tca2i00kAObKcEqJr3CTRnRdo9d7J2PUgr48BDETttXwTNjbYWNHRRj3lDcdc gkUIrex9WvDHoMmoHHX/3i+Sq4BHwY8l3bjwFhc+hPuYVfhzEruLmCblXIbABTGf6C+2 zk6DK2ExbtSjO0Nqx/WnWvK2xwkOD5NQ4qseS8YMuDqW557rJAZZwsdLY+8o9TxMr2+l SwwWPY6Fz5tiCsIMKBKFmJJxhqj3NnF+l3aACnr/VRY+S6yQZWkeW8NJ7Wd+KMN/h96N 94mUjpI4E8pJPHg+VVUE+jDR3xTtbJVJj33SSX68kXVr0fjZ1q6/RdVXzAjmSQc5aPYM Dozw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mIiqF1tfhoX1mg8KNRu6PcbJmnw3rowjSb52uK+Avwh8JOJH7FI ExF5VJmXqoidyF/xNbtPvD71xQAB1SE7XGgp9L0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBotzareEmha8zl3FAnXF67x6hy7RzlzS/0zNQ7y9/0LL8QNkX7lUljUgRGgpYZTFPJ3X8MIcxGYnis9etdfH684= X-Received: by 10.37.250.18 with SMTP id b18mr23690081ybe.371.1514573442670; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 10:50:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.135.9 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 10:50:02 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Curtis Franks Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2017 13:50:02 -0500 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Motion proposal - Unofficialness Disclaimer X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2852658787790705287==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============2852658787790705287== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045ea16609641305617f1c92" --f403045ea16609641305617f1c92 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This should calm gleki's concerns about particular details of the notifications/disclaimers. There will be an authority which regulates them - but we need not figure out all of the details here and now (although we can do so, even if my second motion in this thread (establishing the governing body for such purpose) is adopted and passed). On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 at 1:47 PM, Curtis Franks wrote: > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B > I also move that: > > There shall be > =E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2=80=8B > established > =E2=80=8B, constituted,=E2=80=8B > and organized a body > =E2=80=8B - under and by the authority of the LLG -=E2=80=8B > which will > =E2=80=8B oversee,=E2=80=8B > regulate > =E2=80=8B, and (insofar as possible) enforce=E2=80=8B > the official implementation and application of LLG policy consistent with > the content of the aforementioned motion proposal > =E2=80=8B, provided its passage,=E2=80=8B > or any similar policy of the LLG > =E2=80=8B and which shall search for potential violations of the same or > appropriate content which should be so disclaimed (regardless of any > implemented policy or other mandate, and not pertaining to only websites = or > content subject to the aforementioned policies of the LLG); when it finds > such content but does not have the authority to pursue such disclaimer wi= th > respect to said content, it shall notify the LLG of the situation=E2=80= =8B; > =E2=80=8Bt > his motion shall be inactive, vacuous, and > =E2=80=8B totally=E2=80=8B > ignored if the aforementioned motion proposal does not pass. > =E2=80=8B =E2=80=8B > All of its authority shall be bounded by such policy of the LLG and it > shall not notify or attempt to regulate any content which is not subject = to > or the subject of such LLG policy, although it may search for and review > such content.=E2=80=8B > It will regulate the officially > =E2=80=8B-=E2=80=8B > desired design, implementation, usage > =E2=80=8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8B > of any such notice, protocol, or disclaimer > =E2=80=8B in the stead of the LLG directly=E2=80=8B > . The body shall consist of an odd number of members, numbering at least > five. The body shall publish all of its > =E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2=80=8B > decision > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B > s > =E2=80=8B, =E2=80=8B > and work to the LLG and will notify the pertinent websites and other > subjects as to its standards and policies once such are concretely > established > =E2=80=8B. The LLG=E2=80=8B > shall retain total right of oversight and control over the body and any o= f > its ouput > =E2=80=8B and any matter belonging to its domain of purpose=E2=80=8B or i= ts purview > ; the body shall govern and organize itself and design and enforce its ow= n > internal rules, its external standards, etc. > =E2=80=8Binsofar > as such does not conflict with the decisions of the LLG > =E2=80=8B, including the contents of this motion=E2=80=8B > . The body shall be composed on the earliest of > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B > the first 1 January or first 1 June after its first membership is chosen, > after which point it shall exist for > =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8B > four > =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8B > years and six > =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8B > months and then > =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80=8B > be dissolved > =E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B > and discontinued in its entirety, unless its lifetime is extended > =E2=80=8B and such expiration is delayed in part or whole by explicit=E2= =80=8B > official action of the LLG; upon it > =E2=80=8Bs > expiration > =E2=80=8B (described previously)=E2=80=8B > , all of its > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B > policy, standards, work, decisions, and other output shall devolve to > =E2=80=8B and become the direct responsibility of=E2=80=8B > the LLG and shall persist and remain active and valid > =E2=80=8Bas > =E2=80=8B > policy, standards, work, decisions, and other output > =E2=80=8B (as appropriate) of and in the responsibility of the LLG=E2=80= =8B > until the LLG > =E2=80=8B explicitly > decides otherwise > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B > =E2=80=8B or upon the establishment and constitution of another body or > organization under the authority of the LLG which has or shall have purvi= ew > which nonemptily intersects that of the body herein described (in which > case, all aforementioned pertinent > =E2=80=8B > policy, standards, work, decisions, and other output > =E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherited by and devolved to it unless otherw= ise specified by > the LLG) > ; the > =E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80=8B > membership of the body > =E2=80=8Bherein constituted =E2=80=8B > shall be > =E2=80=8Bselected > in a manner which the LLG decides > =E2=80=8Bis > appropriate, to be determined later > =E2=80=8B; thereafter, all other selection and regulation of its membersh= ip shall > be under the primary authority and review of the body itself, although an= y > regular selection of new membership shall not occur prior to the elapse o= f > fully two calendrical years and six calendrical months after the original > establishment of the body=E2=80=8B and selection of its first membership > . > =E2=80=8B The name of the body herein constituted shall be determined by = the LLG > during or prior to, and as part of, the selection of its first membership= .=E2=80=8B > > On Dec 29, 2017 02:25, "Curtis Franks" wrote: > >> I move that: All non-official pages or content on *.lojban.org must >> contain a disclaimer stating, at least, that the website is owned and >> managed by voluntary >> people, and that the marked contents are not necessarily harmonized with >> the official design of Lojban and may not reflect, let alone perfectly >> comply with, official specifications of the same. >> >> (This motion is intended to satisfy part of guskant's desires, related >> elsewhere. I copied a quasi-motion by them nearly verbatim.) >> ___ >> >> It is a little premature, but I raise the following concerns: >> =E2=80=A2 How do we decide which content should be so disclaimed? What >> constitutes "official" content for these purposes? How do we review cont= ent >> and, later, disclaimers - particularly in a fashion which is quick enoug= h >> to handle edits made by users. >> =E2=80=A2 Do we even have the authority to demand or enforce such discla= imers? >> The website is a wiki and, so, can be edited by anyone and can presumabl= y >> develop its own community standards. >> =E2=80=A2 Is this disclaimer sufficient and sufficiently descriptive for= the >> relevant purposes and desires? >> > --f403045ea16609641305617f1c92 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This should calm gleki's concerns about particular detai= ls of the notifications/disclaimers. There will be an authority which regul= ates them - but we need not figure out all of the details here and now (alt= hough we can do so, even if my second motion in this thread (establishing t= he governing body for such purpose) is adopted and passed).

On Fri, Dec 29, 2017 = at 1:47 PM, Curtis Franks <curtis.w.franks@gmail.com> wrote:
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
I also move that:

There shall be
=E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2=80=8Bestablished
=E2=80= =8B, constituted,=E2=80=8B
and organized a body
=E2=80=8B - under and by the authority of the LLG -=E2=80=8B
which= will
=E2=80=8B overse= e,=E2=80=8B
regulate
=E2=80=8B, and (insofar as possible) enforce=E2=80=8B
the offici= al implementation and application of LLG policy consistent with the content= of the aforementioned motion proposal
=E2=80=8B, p= rovided its passage,=E2=80=8B
or any similar policy of the LLG
=E2=80=8B and which shall se= arch for potential violations of the same or appropriate content which shou= ld be so disclaimed (regardless of any implemented policy or other mandate,= and not pertaining to only websites or content subject to the aforemention= ed policies of the LLG); when it finds such content but does not have the a= uthority to pursue such disclaimer with respect to said content, it shall n= otify the LLG of the situation=E2=80=8B;=C2=A0
=E2=80=8Bt
his motion shall be inactive, vacuous, and
=E2=80=8B totally=E2=80=8B
ignored if the aforementioned motion p= roposal does not pass.
=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8B
All of its authority shall be bounded by such = policy of the LLG and it shall not notify or attempt to regulate any conten= t which is not subject to or the subject of such LLG policy, although it ma= y search for and review such content.=E2=80=8B
It will regulate the officially
=E2=80=8B-=E2=80=8B
desired design, implementation, usa= ge
=E2=80=8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8Bof any such = notice, protocol, or disclaimer
=E2=80=8B in= the stead of the LLG directly=E2=80=8B
. The body shall consist of an odd number o= f members, numbering at least five. The body shall publish all of its
=E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2=80=8B
decision
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
=E2=80=8B=E2=80= =8B
s
=E2=80=8B, =E2=80=8B
and work to the LLG and will noti= fy the pertinent websites and other subjects as to its standards and polici= es once such are concretely established
=E2= =80=8B. The LLG=E2=80=8B
shall retain total right of oversight and control over th= e body and any of its ouput
=E2=80=8B and an= y matter belonging to its domain of purpose=E2=80=8B or its purview
; the body shal= l govern and organize itself and design and enforce its own internal rules,= its external standards, etc.
=E2=80=8Binso= far
=C2= =A0as such does not conflict with the decisions of the LLG
=E2=80=8B, including the contents of this motion=E2=80=8B. The body= shall be composed on the earliest of
=E2=80= =8B=E2=80=8B
the first 1 January or first 1 June after its first membership is cho= sen, after which point it shall exist for
= =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8B
four
=E2=80=8Bcalendrical = =E2=80=8B
=E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80= =8B
mont= hs and then
=E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80=8B
<= span style=3D"font-family:"times new roman",serif">be dissolved
=E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B
and discontinued= in its entirety, unless its lifetime is extended
=E2=80=8B and such expiration is delayed in part or whole by explicit= =E2=80=8B
=E2= =80=8Bs=C2=A0
expiration
=E2=80=8B (described previo= usly)=E2=80=8B
, all of its
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
policy, standards, work, decisions, an= d other output shall devolve to
=E2=80=8B an= d become the direct responsibility of=E2=80=8B
the LLG and shall persist and remai= n active and valid
=E2=80=8Bas=C2=A0
<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:"times new roman"= ;,serif;display:inline">=E2=80=8B
policy, standards, work, decisions, and other out= put
=E2=80=8B=C2=A0 (as appropriate) of and = in the responsibility of the LLG=E2=80=8B=C2=A0
until the LLG
=E2=80=8B explicitly=C2=A0
decides otherwise
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
=E2=80=8B or upon the e= stablishment and constitution of another body or organization under the aut= hority of the LLG which has or shall have purview which nonemptily intersec= ts that of the body herein described (in which case, all aforementioned per= tinent=C2=A0
=E2=80=8B
policy, standards, work, decis= ions, and other output
=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bsh= all be inherited by and devolved to it unless otherwise specified by the LL= G)
; the=
=E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80=8B
membership of the body <= /span>
=E2=80=8Bherein constituted =E2=80=8B
<= span style=3D"font-family:"times new roman",serif">shall be
=E2=80=8Bselected
=C2=A0in a manner which the LLG decide= s
=E2=80=8Bis
=C2=A0appropriate, to be determined l= ater
=E2=80=8B; thereafter, all other select= ion and regulation of its membership shall be under the primary authority a= nd review of the body itself, although any regular selection of new members= hip shall not occur prior to the elapse of fully two calendrical years and = six calendrical months after the original establishment of the body=E2=80= =8B and selection of its first membership
.
=E2=80= =8B The name of the body herein constituted shall be determined by the LLG = during or prior to, and as part of, the selection of its first membership.= =E2=80=8B

On Dec 29, 2017 02:25, "Curtis Franks= " <c= urtis.w.franks@gmail.com> wrote:
I move that: All non-official pages o= r content on *.lojban.org=C2=A0must contain a disclaimer stating, at least, that the w= ebsite is owned and managed by voluntary
people, and that the marked contents are not necessarily harmonized = with the official design of Lojban and may not reflect, let alone perfectly= comply with, official specifications of the same.
=
(Th= is motion is intended to satisfy part of guskant's desires, related els= ewhere. I copied a quasi-motion by them nearly verbatim.)
___

It is a little premature, but I raise the followin= g concerns:
=E2=80=A2 How do we decide which content should be s= o disclaimed? What constitutes "official" content for these purpo= ses? How do we review content and, later, disclaimers - particularly in a f= ashion which is quick enough to handle edits made by users.
=E2= =80=A2 Do we even have the authority to demand or enforce such disclaimers?= The website is a wiki and, so, can be edited by anyone and can presumably = develop its own community standards.
=E2=80=A2 Is this disclaime= r sufficient and sufficiently descriptive for the relevant purposes and des= ires?

--f403045ea16609641305617f1c92-- --===============2852658787790705287== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Llg-members mailing list Llg-members@lojban.org http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members --===============2852658787790705287==--