Received: from localhost ([::1]:40956 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eVBpr-00062k-8L; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 23:45:39 -0800 Received: from mail-wm0-f42.google.com ([74.125.82.42]:41342) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eVBpK-0005yV-Ld for llg-members@lojban.org; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 23:45:08 -0800 Received: by mail-wm0-f42.google.com with SMTP id g75so51392643wme.0 for ; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 23:45:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=bBJBWBg0sk06lat8czMk6xjuxovo8uen81v80+n8BXQ=; b=u/qizkFpmnj4D+vDn17SNL5gZzDyIBi2eGzZITPjgl3str+uFfS8GtomJWPayR4caG 6tO0cT4Levl/JG5b+nfauIMr+r1YKcGdz4HaDGfFG9ZY52zKn7STBVWy1QYOx0VvxKDK ozMz/IqGbHrcmZTHqYlvqydodvynQS02oU9coy+13eLijGUYziAKHK8uMPHogrX7bJh4 cW4nlyn2QfsJcaqjZqd3FrpCoT6A/jRtP2np70n+tN6FemUZyj1S54j1orHR9wcFolJ1 WLYuLQGZHf/bIMlq88q5IG0iuLFp2rrtp5d7st4FYrlmTd1kGCd0MbpKnSlHSLR8ppDW LvPw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=bBJBWBg0sk06lat8czMk6xjuxovo8uen81v80+n8BXQ=; b=leOY0OCwpUXiNgac7eCACWEGLwA7SJsl64//amxVjaebwPDmyYPg05erkiIGAAlc9x NgOAz2S3XcgtxBANEkMnvbYfeaWFglKQG3bGjRaFvnrrqNyB0nM29xr13uZPFEx0AV94 KfuDLueOBPkCytlxcrd9LSIBhOCKambrjK6qyMCcYO4zmLo4CeURStsU5HesyyVSL0oe 1egNPocV913PoE/FFKBkfJEFSjkbrlMaT2nViR5+RLjdNEC2/YuNTXdPKa7H277Q3wQH G067oeXaE7rMSIbM9FJIvP0kPA3fJHVHsv4dpHOxQ7knGwpSyGltzsSUdRMvuTwFoW6n KFhQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mKRldYgnCh+urp1YOdAkBb7NA9ljsAe7+k1lQMjvhaVRLN/wnPE o5U93gLtq9CLTpXQhr/Mo6CZBAKbKn3fzs/QCA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBosVXYKrSFTWRoyuezyW5dOBkwSPct4XW55RMRsqf+d2qLW0SCgBPJ+FJQgSr/i+DkjqBvRV67AiU1P0yT6lpg8= X-Received: by 10.80.158.196 with SMTP id a62mr48044338edf.307.1514619899994; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 23:44:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.173.219 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Dec 2017 23:44:19 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 10:44:19 +0300 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Motion proposal - Unofficialness Disclaimer X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============4066238920167010119==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============4066238920167010119== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c19b9761be734056189edf1" --94eb2c19b9761be734056189edf1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2017-12-29 21:47 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks : > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B > I also move that: > > There shall be > =E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2=80=8B > established > =E2=80=8B, constituted,=E2=80=8B > and organized a body > =E2=80=8B - under and by the authority of the LLG -=E2=80=8B > which will > =E2=80=8B oversee,=E2=80=8B > regulate > =E2=80=8B, and (insofar as possible) enforce=E2=80=8B > the official implementation and application of LLG policy consistent with > the content of the aforementioned motion proposal > =E2=80=8B, provided its passage,=E2=80=8B > or any similar policy of the LLG > =E2=80=8B and which shall search for potential violations of the same or > appropriate content which should be so disclaimed (regardless of any > implemented policy or other mandate, and not pertaining to only websites = or > content subject to the aforementioned policies of the LLG); when it finds > such content but does not have the authority to pursue such disclaimer wi= th > respect to said content, it shall notify the LLG of the situation=E2=80= =8B; > =E2=80=8Bt > his motion shall be inactive, vacuous, and > =E2=80=8B totally=E2=80=8B > ignored if the aforementioned motion proposal does not pass. > =E2=80=8B =E2=80=8B > All of its authority shall be bounded by such policy of the LLG and it > shall not notify or attempt to regulate any content which is not subject = to > or the subject of such LLG policy, although it may search for and review > such content.=E2=80=8B > It will regulate the officially > =E2=80=8B-=E2=80=8B > desired design, implementation, usage > =E2=80=8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8B > of any such notice, protocol, or disclaimer > =E2=80=8B in the stead of the LLG directly=E2=80=8B > . The body shall consist of an odd number of members, numbering at least > five. The body shall publish all of its > =E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2=80=8B > decision > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B > s > =E2=80=8B, =E2=80=8B > and work to the LLG and will notify the pertinent websites and other > subjects as to its standards and policies once such are concretely > established > =E2=80=8B. The LLG=E2=80=8B > shall retain total right of oversight and control over the body and any o= f > its ouput > =E2=80=8B and any matter belonging to its domain of purpose=E2=80=8B or i= ts purview > ; the body shall govern and organize itself and design and enforce its ow= n > internal rules, its external standards, etc. > =E2=80=8Binsofar > as such does not conflict with the decisions of the LLG > =E2=80=8B, including the contents of this motion=E2=80=8B > . The body shall be composed on the earliest of > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B > the first 1 January or first 1 June after its first membership is chosen, > after which point it shall exist for > =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8B > four > =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8B > years and six > =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8B > months and then > =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80=8B > be dissolved > =E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B > and discontinued in its entirety, unless its lifetime is extended > =E2=80=8B and such expiration is delayed in part or whole by explicit=E2= =80=8B > official action of the LLG; upon it > =E2=80=8Bs > expiration > =E2=80=8B (described previously)=E2=80=8B > , all of its > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B > policy, standards, work, decisions, and other output shall devolve to > =E2=80=8B and become the direct responsibility of=E2=80=8B > the LLG and shall persist and remain active and valid > =E2=80=8Bas > =E2=80=8B > policy, standards, work, decisions, and other output > =E2=80=8B (as appropriate) of and in the responsibility of the LLG=E2=80= =8B > until the LLG > =E2=80=8B explicitly > decides otherwise > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B > =E2=80=8B or upon the establishment and constitution of another body or > organization under the authority of the LLG which has or shall have purvi= ew > which nonemptily intersects that of the body herein described (in which > case, all aforementioned pertinent > =E2=80=8B > policy, standards, work, decisions, and other output > =E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherited by and devolved to it unless otherw= ise specified by > the LLG) > ; the > =E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80=8B > membership of the body > =E2=80=8Bherein constituted =E2=80=8B > shall be > =E2=80=8Bselected > in a manner which the LLG decides > =E2=80=8Bis > appropriate, to be determined later > =E2=80=8B; thereafter, all other selection and regulation of its membersh= ip shall > be under the primary authority and review of the body itself, although an= y > regular selection of new membership shall not occur prior to the elapse o= f > fully two calendrical years and six calendrical months after the original > establishment of the body=E2=80=8B and selection of its first membership > . > =E2=80=8B The name of the body herein constituted shall be determined by = the LLG > during or prior to, and as part of, the selection of its first membership= .=E2=80=8B > I second this motion. > > On Dec 29, 2017 02:25, "Curtis Franks" wrote: > >> I move that: All non-official pages or content on *.lojban.org must >> contain a disclaimer stating, at least, that the website is owned and >> managed by voluntary >> people, and that the marked contents are not necessarily harmonized with >> the official design of Lojban and may not reflect, let alone perfectly >> comply with, official specifications of the same. >> >> (This motion is intended to satisfy part of guskant's desires, related >> elsewhere. I copied a quasi-motion by them nearly verbatim.) >> ___ >> >> It is a little premature, but I raise the following concerns: >> =E2=80=A2 How do we decide which content should be so disclaimed? What >> constitutes "official" content for these purposes? How do we review cont= ent >> and, later, disclaimers - particularly in a fashion which is quick enoug= h >> to handle edits made by users. >> =E2=80=A2 Do we even have the authority to demand or enforce such discla= imers? >> The website is a wiki and, so, can be edited by anyone and can presumabl= y >> develop its own community standards. >> =E2=80=A2 Is this disclaimer sufficient and sufficiently descriptive for= the >> relevant purposes and desires? >> > > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > > --94eb2c19b9761be734056189edf1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2017-12-29 21:47 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks <curtis.w.franks@gma= il.com>:
<= div dir=3D"auto">
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
I also move that:

There s= hall be
=E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2=80=8B
established
=E2=80=8B, constituted,=E2=80=8B
and organized a body
=E2= =80=8B - under and by the authority of the LLG -=E2=80=8B
which will<= div style=3D"display:inline">=E2=80=8B oversee,=E2=80=8B
regulate=E2=80=8B, and (insofar as possible) enforce=E2= =80=8B
the official implementation and application of LLG policy cons= istent with the content of the aforementioned motion proposal
=E2=80=8B, pr= ovided its passage,=E2=80=8B
or any similar policy of the LLG
=E2=80=8B and which shall search for potential violat= ions of the same or appropriate content which should be so disclaimed (rega= rdless of any implemented policy or other mandate, and not pertaining to on= ly websites or content subject to the aforementioned policies of the LLG); = when it finds such content but does not have the authority to pursue such d= isclaimer with respect to said content, it shall notify the LLG of the situ= ation=E2=80=8B;=C2=A0
=E2=80=8Bt
his motion shall be inactive, vacuous= , and
=E2=80=8B totally=E2=80=8B
ignored if the aforementioned motion= proposal does not pass.
=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8B
All of its author= ity shall be bounded by such policy of the LLG and it shall not notify or a= ttempt to regulate any content which is not subject to or the subject of su= ch LLG policy, although it may search for and review such content.=E2=80=8B=
It wil= l regulate the officially
=E2=80=8B-=E2=80=8B
desired design, implementation= , usage
=E2=80=8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8B
of any such notice, protocol, o= r disclaimer
=E2=80=8B in the stead of the LLG directly=E2=80=8B. The body = shall consist of an odd number of members, numbering at least five. The bod= y shall publish all of its
=E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2=80=8B
decision
=E2= =80=8B=E2=80=8B
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
s
=E2=80=8B, =E2=80=8B
and work to the LLG = and will notify the pertinent websites and other subjects as to its standar= ds and policies once such are concretely established
=E2=80=8B. The = LLG=E2=80=8B
shall retain total right of oversight and control over the body and a= ny of its ouput
=E2=80=8B and any matter belonging to its domain of = purpose=E2=80=8B or its purview
; the body shall govern and organize itself and des= ign and enforce its own internal rules, its external standards, etc.
=C2=A0as such does not conflict with the decisions of the LLG
=E2=80=8B, including the contents of this motion=E2=80=8B
. The body shall be = composed on the earliest of
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
the first 1 January or first= 1 June after its first membership is chosen, after which point it shall ex= ist for
=E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8B
four
=E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80= =8B
year= s and six
=E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8B
months and then
=E2=80=8B= shall =E2=80=8B
be dissolved
=E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B
and discontinued i= n its entirety, unless its lifetime is extended
=E2=80=8B and such e= xpiration is delayed in part or whole by explicit=E2=80=8B
official action of the = LLG; upon it
=E2=80=8Bs=C2=A0
expiration
=E2=80=8B (described previou= sly)=E2=80=8B
, all of its
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bpolicy, stan= dards, work, decisions, and other output shall devolve to
=E2=80=8B= and become the direct responsibility of=E2=80=8B
the LLG and shall persist and re= main active and valid
=E2=80=8Bas=C2=A0
=E2=80=8B
policy, standards, = work, decisions, and other output
=E2=80=8B=C2=A0 (as appropriate) o= f and in the responsibility of the LLG=E2=80=8B=C2=A0
until the LLG
=E2=80= =8B explicitly=C2=A0
decides otherwise
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B
=E2=80=8B or= upon the establishment and constitution of another body or organization un= der the authority of the LLG which has or shall have purview which nonempti= ly intersects that of the body herein described (in which case, all aforeme= ntioned pertinent=C2=A0
=E2=80=8B
policy, standards, work, decisions, and oth= er output
=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherited by and devolved to i= t unless otherwise specified by the LLG)
; the
=E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80=8Bmembership = of the body
=E2=80=8Bherein constituted =E2=80=8B
shall be
=E2=80= =8Bselected
=C2=A0in a manner which the LLG decides
=E2=80=8Bis
=C2=A0appropriate, = to be determined later
=E2=80=8B; thereafter, all other selection an= d regulation of its membership shall be under the primary authority and rev= iew of the body itself, although any regular selection of new membership sh= all not occur prior to the elapse of fully two calendrical years and six ca= lendrical months after the original establishment of the body=E2=80=8B and = selection of its first membership
.
=E2=80=8B The name of the body herein co= nstituted shall be determined by the LLG during or prior to, and as part of= , the selection of its first membership.=E2=80=8B

I second this motion.
=C2=A0
=

On Dec 29, 2017 02:25= , "Curtis Franks" <curtis.w.franks@gmail.com> wrote:
I move that: All= non-official pages or content on *.lojban.org=C2=A0must contain a disclaimer stating,= at least, that the website is owned and managed by voluntary
people, and that the marked contents are not ne= cessarily harmonized with the official design of Lojban and may not reflect= , let alone perfectly comply with, official specifications of the same.

(This motion is intended to satisfy part of guskant's= desires, related elsewhere. I copied a quasi-motion by them nearly verbati= m.)
___

It is a little premature, but= I raise the following concerns:
=E2=80=A2 How do we decide whi= ch content should be so disclaimed? What constitutes "official" c= ontent for these purposes? How do we review content and, later, disclaimers= - particularly in a fashion which is quick enough to handle edits made by = users.
=E2=80=A2 Do we even have the authority to demand or enfo= rce such disclaimers? The website is a wiki and, so, can be edited by anyon= e and can presumably develop its own community standards.
=E2=80= =A2 Is this disclaimer sufficient and sufficiently descriptive for the rele= vant purposes and desires?

_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members


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