Received: from localhost ([::1]:37352 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eXOhM-00045t-I6; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 01:54:00 -0800 Received: from mail-yw0-f178.google.com ([209.85.161.178]:40269) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eXOgq-00044t-Fo for llg-members@lojban.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 01:53:29 -0800 Received: by mail-yw0-f178.google.com with SMTP id g191so1568978ywe.7 for ; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 01:53:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=5M/OveycAXYZMvpkySOuLK7yo1L8hc1JY2IQ5leAfGE=; b=SV9hlG5ChqzMfmCHpJlbkg1WlUlM26yoNUMDi8j5PFKewU7d7JnANMC0hDtF/4etH2 zNTl9MAWnM4J2enzoZPUinGyVLzLV+vJQULJytBNQbAYn/NQT9cDMVg1Q6AvVTfiGa7v Qz6ISkSFdFy5zN9SzYq4yNbwcjkV0nmIuLBLsu0kKkU9Fb2astkEvyEDqF7DUGGQ2+yU 6T3BCDmt4h8MlD3+/c7+js94MH8My+hupRMItlTClNIJvEmy5ARAm8aUvd6H1D71dAyr ZxhqVWsirYCnLcRyfENbofqYb+8lbAHrFtAU+CcvdNeA/bXtCOaG9LkHBTY29S5cbHFQ 0h+Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=5M/OveycAXYZMvpkySOuLK7yo1L8hc1JY2IQ5leAfGE=; b=SBHrEpQhnDmogQMZl3ROHszy2jpWNplrfT+bGmIPddcOupPNYCSrCq9IRbEfMv6iex X1L7zUd4v87K8bMqxckrm9k1uE35O8LV4DkshyEk90FvXp7HevVlBpuKJDVz8wRjhFi7 gvq7P5e+YdQlzvnyiPrtnHOqzXrnern8lqCvoIkkBZUoBAMnR2M7zgy5NtvYYKsJs02G NOHZqXdygFJ5GfnjLKGWhsmcsiXVpmW3DvgOaPQBjJHWCY4ufQaoSkrJZp0To+j4CVnK fOKj+gRCqj9sa+bv3h+oVKyiRh9IIWj2cl9uTJjWChFm/HCtZPF9FLpQHg6mtIgNgpL2 GDgg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJHPn3P+vX8kRkJu0g0GPKdXhwbeGx7XYVxxxtn03AtwI6muWJP qWHu+gxFRD0Y8boDmpNUcZUal7qyIEp11VKONE4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBos3NGWUBJWiUcTCUmy+RhJTd4DC4xfXQGSs+epD4+X243InCcGzwWic1nV0isg2aPzA7/zGDR3EWF1HQjvAXUE= X-Received: by 10.129.26.208 with SMTP id a199mr2229287ywa.70.1515146001938; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 01:53:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.135.9 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Jan 2018 01:53:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.37.135.9 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Jan 2018 01:53:21 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Curtis Franks Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2018 04:53:21 -0500 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_bar: - Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Motions regarding LLG goals X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2534436850312535066==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============2534436850312535066== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1142d0d43a7e730562046bae" --001a1142d0d43a7e730562046bae Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I do not make my amendment because I actually think that the definition provided for logical languages, regardless of its merits, is - according to the wording of the motion - strictly for only the purposes of the motion/provision (and any other motion or provision which borrows or derives from the definitional framework and description of the motion). I have replied to and edited (my version of) your message for clarity and made an important addition which specified my formal motion (so it does not change anything except people's perception/understanding of what was meant) for Motion 3. On Jan 5, 2018 4:22 AM, "Creative Care Services" wrote: Curtis has made three related [motions], all seconded (without the amendment Curtis made to number 3) Motion 1, actually. The effects would potentially propagate to the others in order (although I believe there to be a decent amount of argument available for and against that outcome in either event). In any case, because I am not proposing the amendment again, it does not matter except for the sake of clarity. As a heads-up: this error is made throughout your response. by Selpa'i. Since Selpa'i specifically had not included Curtis' amendment to number 3 [correction: 1], that [motion] does not include the amendment[.] I request that Curtis make this amendment as an add[-]on if he still wants it included. Assuming there are no objections raised by our parliamentarian, discussion shall continue until 12:00 noon GMT in January 9, 2018 subject to early termination [if] the discussion ends before then. They will be discussed together, though we will vote on each separately. I hope I don't need to say this[:] Please [keep(?)] discussion on these [motions] to this thread and keep discussions here to these motions. .karis. Motion 1: The LLG shall adopt, as a principal goal of the LLG (coequal with any other principal goals), the intention of exploration and promotion of logical language(s) in general, subject to the following definitional framework and description: Presupposing that everything effable (i.e. linguistically expressible) can be represented as a predicate-argument structure (PAS), a logical language (in the technical sense, i.e. loglang) is one that (syntactically-)unambiguously bidirectionally encodes an unlimited number of PASs. (Also known by some as the 'monoparsing' property. The relevant bidirectionality is conversion both from PAS to phonological form and from phonological form to PAS.) Motion 2: A principal goal of the LLG (coequal with any other principal goals) is promotion of Lojban (regardless of its status as a logical language) as defined by documents endorsed by the LLG. ^^ I likewise (same wording) so move, with terms as described in my immediately previous motion in this message. Motion 3: A principal goal of the LLG (coequal with any other principal goals) is creation of a Lojban derivative that is a logical language. ^^ I likewise so move, with terms as described in my immediately previous two motions in this message. --001a1142d0d43a7e730562046bae Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I do not make my amendment because I actually think = that the definition provided for logical languages, regardless of its merit= s, is - according to the wording of the motion - strictly for only the purp= oses of the motion/provision (and any other motion or provision which borro= ws or derives from the definitional framework and description of the motion= ).

I have replied to and= edited (my version of) your message for clarity and made an important addi= tion which specified my formal motion (so it does not change anything excep= t people's perception/understanding of what was meant) for Motion 3.

On Jan 5, 2018 4:22 AM, "Creative Care Services"= <comcaresvcs@gmail.com>= wrote:
=
Curtis has made three related [motions], all seconded (without the ame= ndment Curtis made to number 3)
=

Motion 1, actually. The effec= ts would potentially propagate to the others in order (although I believe t= here to be a decent amount of argument available for and against that outco= me in either event). In any case, because I am not proposing the amendment = again, it does not matter except for the sake of clarity.

As a heads-up: this error is made through= out your response.

<= div dir=3D"auto">
by Selpa'i. Since Selpa'i specifically=C2=A0 = had not included Curtis' amendment to number 3 [correction: 1], that [m= otion] does not include the amendment[.] I request that Curtis make this am= endment as an add[-]on if he still wants it included.

Assuming there are no objections raised by ou= r parliamentarian, discussion shall continue until 12:00 noon GMT in Januar= y 9, 2018 subject to early termination [if] the discussion ends before then= . They will be discussed together, though we will vote on each separately. = I hope I don't need to say this[:] Please [keep(?)] discussion on these= [motions] to this thread and keep discussions here to these motions.=C2=A0=

.karis.=C2=A0


Motion 1: The LLG shall adopt, as a principal goal of the LLG (coequa= l with any other principal goals), the intention of exploration and promoti= on of logical language(s) in general, subject to the following definitional= framework and description: Presupposing that everything effable (i.e. ling= uistically expressible) can be represented as a predicate-argument structur= e (PAS), a logical language (in the technical sense, i.e. loglang) is one t= hat (syntactically-)unambiguously bidirectionally encodes an unlimited numb= er of PASs. (Also known by some as the 'monoparsing' property. The = relevant bidirectionality is conversion both from PAS to phonological form = and from phonological form to PAS.)

Motion 2: A principal goal of the LLG (coequa= l with any other principal goals) is promotion of Lojban (regardless of its= status as a logical language) as defined by documents endorsed by the LLG.=


^^ I likewise (same wording) so move, with terms as described i= n my immediately previous motion in this message.


Motion 3: A principal goal o= f the LLG (coequal with any other principal goals) is creation of a Lojban = derivative that is a logical language.
=

^^ I likewise so move, with terms as described in my im= mediately previous two motions in this message.

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