Received: from localhost ([::1]:43248 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eXWIT-0003wd-Bp; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 10:00:49 -0800 Received: from mail-yw0-f170.google.com ([209.85.161.170]:44145) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eXWHw-0003vM-WB for llg-members@lojban.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 10:00:18 -0800 Received: by mail-yw0-f170.google.com with SMTP id m129so2040318ywb.11 for ; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 10:00:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=esbGBvvkurAMN1SVdsh+eEOuehj5rb92FL3Sqg1+gPk=; b=o5cjEeBGEP9FJtbyHOyuDADzsYOxyClckYpcqAbGoGggZd8EiyBDeqqcOaKNBwdERv VZSvEo8NbsJfBlN2sZitRufnhYTTwmLt7X58oOzCoJA1fQn16v+mn0aDJYmsw3DFuuFm HYJSoiKOV3otCzw+8uV8yEvUfYERLoBvuXWUDNS8q9VWRZwU5oWOjEBy82NTlnP5uFgq cwKEloS62wTeHPtuk/vszafnZIMJsAam8dwFEXAGdPHM0JGcvQ3m/iCFIRXyLgvmi/8s rfx6i8/X0m9MffZP+zGBicMPGz4jEiQDTmJA/KDHxi3RNdXzA/PybnZTmrJ9eWlG+1i4 Vn9g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=esbGBvvkurAMN1SVdsh+eEOuehj5rb92FL3Sqg1+gPk=; b=FQPDrh9twgoH8KnqLjrreCVlwz2gcRI9Jtftc5YhyjKUrshcvqQP51HPhJfmngKtB0 YChIvyGGsOmushmX4dHoVwp9yyJ5LrfcYdCTPtzZnUmzFAcbEXqnGMKb3GfvZcarzCQw sY0yVvPqXDMgWLPdWSmbclJ/cjkjHrsKfplKwQbeO3+8DKFKCmjRTNX5CYvihzfEHJsz Y2ibkNVh0LQqs2mjx3wijv9YXkMW7FyNHv6rAqbTvpB9AstqRuBcnPW9FoS5q5auoEfB o88oUc2RWN8beqpreZbgw5XGOFVg3HwkHxPs+dhXduu75+nVdu3jcyYtdgR7EA7tWYcT dEXg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mLry94rM/MnhSrQzzfLcW+f6C1RXqnCqRLXg2MWH8isYthXvai9 MoHq8vnfIAl7b8dO3rMAmZaYZFkkdtrtGvhaQW4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBovzEEHK4QHtYNCTZy9Ff7agHRI27ldAYeE4hwb4FaKXSz9A6KKrQ6wj9XyiSUDkq8UcgIaZKFlEexq0DObpOP4= X-Received: by 10.129.162.2 with SMTP id z2mr3450794ywg.275.1515175210156; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 10:00:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.135.9 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Jan 2018 10:00:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.37.135.9 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Jan 2018 10:00:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Curtis Franks Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2018 13:00:09 -0500 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_bar: - Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Proposal : Investigation of Unofficialness X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5885029063561911000==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============5885029063561911000== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c115da22c84d605620b3804" --94eb2c115da22c84d605620b3804 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The basic goal of this motion is to outsource all particular debate and decisions concerning the realization of Motion 4 or Motion 5 to an independent 'contracting' body with a fair amount of autonomy so that we do not have to consider them here (or prior to the passage of those motions). However, I still want the contracting body to be finite in power (hence its restrictions and preset expiration), accountable to us, well-organized so that objections or concerns raised by members while discussing Motion 6 are pre=C3=ABmptively assuaged, and acting on our behalf with the additional property that all of their work becomes LLG policy, property, etc. once the contract ends (thus it would be under LLG control and carry the weight of full policy, work, command, etc. of the LLG pursuant to Motion 4 or Motion 5 or other motions). On Jan 5, 2018 09:51, "Creative Care Services" wrote: > In addition to the two other proposals regarding unofficial content, > included below because this one refers to them, Curtis pointed out that h= e > had made three rather than two on this topic. The one we are considering > here is listed below as number six. > > This motion is now waiting to see if anyone chooses to second it. > > .karis. > > >> *Concerning Unofficial Social Media Presences* >> >> *Motion 4: "*The LLG shall adopt an official policy that the LLG or some >> body constituted by it for such purpose shall search for and monitor soc= ial >> media or blog platforms, accounts, pages, profiles, groups, communities, >> bots, etc. (hereafter called "entities") which in any way whatsoever rel= ate >> to, promote, or use Lojban or other LLG-adopted logical languages and wh= ich >> are not clearly human, personal, non-promoting, or unofficial - and that >> such a body shall request such entities to prominently display a disclai= mer >> stating that they are unofficial and not endorsed by the LLG.*"* >> * * I noted the following caveat with the original discussion which >> became a motion: "(I do not think that we can enforce such requests, jus= t >> make them. But having an official policy about addressing them may be go= od >> and gives us some moral 'standing')"* >> * * Moved by me, seconded by gleki.* >> >> *___* >> >> *Unofficialness Disclaimer* >> >> *Motion 5: "*All non-official pages or content on *.lojban.org must >> contain a disclaimer stating, at least, that the website is owned and >> managed by voluntary people, and that the marked contents are not >> necessarily harmonized with the official design of Lojban and may not >> reflect, let alone perfectly comply with, official specifications of the >> same.*"* >> ** Moved by me, seconded by at least guskant and gleki.* >> >> > > > **** Here it is! **** > > > *Motion 6: "*There shall be =E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2=80=8Bestablished=E2= =80=8B, constituted,=E2=80=8B and >> organized a body=E2=80=8B - under and by the authority of the LLG -=E2= =80=8B which will=E2=80=8B >> oversee,=E2=80=8B regulate=E2=80=8B, and (insofar as possible) enforce= =E2=80=8B the official >> implementation and application of LLG policy consistent with and >> pursuant to the content of the aforementioned motion proposals *(id est: >> Motion 4 or Motion 5)*, provided the passage of at least one thereof,=E2= =80=8B >> or any similar policy of the LLG=E2=80=8B and which shall search for eit= her >> potential violations of the same or appropriate content which should be = so >> disclaimed (regardless of any implemented policy or other mandate, and n= ot >> pertaining to only websites or entities or content subject to the >> aforementioned policies of the LLG); when it finds such content but does >> not have the authority to pursue such disclaimer with respect to said >> content, it shall notify the LLG of the situation and its recommendation= s >> pertaining to such=E2=80=8B; =E2=80=8Bthis motion shall be inactive, vac= uous, and=E2=80=8B totally=E2=80=8B >> ignored if the aforementioned motion proposals *(Motion 4, Motion 5)* bo= th >> do not pass.=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8BAll of this body's authority shall be inf= erior to and >> subsumed by that of the LLG and shall be bounded by such policy of the L= LG >> and it shall not notify or attempt to regulate any entity or content whi= ch >> is not subject to or the subject of such LLG policy, although it may sea= rch >> for and review such content.=E2=80=8B It will regulate the officially=E2= =80=8B-=E2=80=8Bdesired >> design, implementation, usage=E2=80=8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8Bof any = such notice, >> protocol, or disclaimer=E2=80=8B in the stead of the LLG directly=E2=80= =8B. The body shall >> consist of an odd number of members, numbering at least five. The body >> shall publish all of its =E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2=80=8Bdecision=E2=80=8B=E2= =80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, =E2=80=8Band work to the LLG and >> will notify the pertinent websites and entities and other subjects, >> according to its own discretion or explicit and direct command by the LL= G, >> as to its standards and policies once such are concretely established=E2= =80=8B. >> Whilst the body is constituted, the LLG=E2=80=8B shall retain total righ= t of >> oversight and control over, but not necessarily responsibility for, the >> body and any of its ouput=E2=80=8B or decisions or actions or methods or= works, as >> well as any matter belonging to its domain of purpose=E2=80=8B or its pu= rview; the >> body shall govern and organize itself and design and enforce its own >> internal rules, its external standards, etc. =E2=80=8Binsofar as such do= es not >> conflict with the decisions of the LLG=E2=80=8B, including the contents = of this >> motion=E2=80=8B. The body shall be composed on the earliest of=E2=80=8B= =E2=80=8B the first 1 >> January or first 1 June after its first membership is chosen, after whic= h >> point it shall exist for =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour =E2=80=8Bcalendric= al =E2=80=8Byears and six >> =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmonths and then =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80=8Bbe= dissolved=E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B and >> discontinued in its entirety, unless its lifetime is extended=E2=80=8B a= nd such >> expiration is delayed in part or whole by explicit=E2=80=8B official act= ion of the >> LLG; upon it=E2=80=8Bs expiration=E2=80=8B (described previously)=E2=80= =8B, all of its =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bpolicy, >> standards, work, decisions, and other output shall devolve to=E2=80=8B a= nd become >> the direct responsibility of=E2=80=8B the LLG and shall persist and rema= in active >> and valid =E2=80=8Bas =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decisions, and o= ther output=E2=80=8B (as >> appropriate) of and in the responsibility of the LLG=E2=80=8B until the = LLG=E2=80=8B >> explicitly decides otherwise=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B or upon the esta= blishment and constitution >> of another body or organization under the authority of the LLG which has= or >> shall have purview which nonemptily intersects that of the body herein >> described (in which case, all aforementioned pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolicy, = standards, >> work, decisions, and other output=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherited b= y and devolved to >> it unless otherwise specified by the LLG); the =E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80=8Bm= embership of the >> body =E2=80=8Bherein constituted =E2=80=8Bshall be =E2=80=8Bselected in = a manner which the LLG >> decides =E2=80=8Bto be appropriate, which shall be determined later=E2= =80=8B by the LLG; >> thereafter, all other selection and regulation of its membership shall b= e >> under the primary authority and review of the body itself, although any >> regular selection of new membership shall not occur prior to the elapse = of >> fully two calendrical years and six calendrical months after the origina= l >> establishment of the body=E2=80=8B and selection of its first membership= ; all >> membership applications and notice for such application shall be public; >> eligibility requirements for membership to the body shall be subject to >> review and change by the LLG and must be explicitly established, with >> explicit permission of the LLG, prior to the selection of any new >> membership of the body.=E2=80=8B The name of the body herein constituted= shall be >> determined by the LLG during or prior to, and as part of, the selection = of >> its first membership.*=E2=80=8B"* >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > > --94eb2c115da22c84d605620b3804 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The basic goal of this motion is to outsource all particu= lar debate and decisions concerning the realization of Motion 4 or Motion 5= to an independent 'contracting' body with a fair amount of autonom= y so that we do not have to consider them here (or prior to the passage of = those motions). However, I still want the contracting body to be finite in = power (hence its restrictions and preset expiration), accountable to us, we= ll-organized so that objections or concerns raised by members while discuss= ing Motion 6 are pre=C3=ABmptively assuaged, and acting on our behalf with = the additional property that all of their work becomes LLG policy, property= , etc. once the contract ends (thus it would be under LLG control and carry= the weight of full policy, work, command, etc. of the LLG pursuant to Moti= on 4 or Motion 5 or other motions).

On Jan 5, 2018 09:51, "Creative Care Services&= quot; <comcar= esvcs@gmail.com> wrote:
In addition to the two other proposals regarding=C2=A0 unofficia= l content, included below because this one refers to them, Curtis pointed o= ut that he had made three rather than two on this topic. The one we are con= sidering here is listed below as number six.

This motion= is now waiting to see if anyone chooses to second it.=C2=A0

=
.karis.=C2=A0

<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<= blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,= 204,204);padding-left:1ex">

Concerning Unofficial Social Media Presences

=
Motion 4: "The LLG shall adopt an official policy that the = LLG or some body constituted by it for such purpose shall search for and mo= nitor social media or blog platforms, accounts, pages, profiles, groups, co= mmunities, bots, etc. (hereafter called "entities") which in any = way whatsoever relate to, promote, or use Lojban or other LLG-adopted logic= al languages and which are not clearly human, personal, non-promoting, or u= nofficial - and that such a body shall request such entities to prominently= display a disclaimer stating that they are unofficial and not endorsed by = the LLG."
=C2=A0* I noted the following caveat with= the original discussion which became a motion: "(I do not think that = we can enforce such requests, just make them. But having an official policy= about addressing them may be good and gives us some moral 'standing= 9;)"
=C2=A0* Moved by me, seconded by gleki.

___

Unofficialness Disclaimer

Motion 5: "= All non-official pages or content on *.lojban.org=C2=A0must contain a disclaimer stating, at leas= t, that the website is owned and managed by voluntary people, and that the = marked contents are not necessarily harmonized with the official design of = Lojban and may not reflect, let alone perfectly comply with, official speci= fications of the same."
* Moved by me, seconded by at le= ast guskant and gleki.
=
<= /blockquote>



=C2=A0*= *** Here it is! ****


<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">
Motion 6: "There shall be =E2= =80=8Bauthorized, =E2=80=8Bestablished=E2=80=8B, constituted,=E2=80=8B and = organized a body=E2=80=8B - under and by the authority of the LLG -=E2=80= =8B which will=E2=80=8B oversee,=E2=80=8B regulate=E2=80=8B, and (insofar a= s possible) enforce=E2=80=8B the official implementation and application of= LLG policy consistent with and pursuant=C2=A0to the content of the aforeme= ntioned motion proposals=C2=A0(id est: Motion 4 or Motion 5= ), provided the passage of at least one thereof,=E2=80=8B o= r any similar policy of the LLG=E2=80=8B and which shall search for either = potential violations of the same or appropriate content which should be so = disclaimed (regardless of any implemented policy or other mandate, and not = pertaining to only websites or entities or content subject to the aforement= ioned policies of the LLG); when it finds such content but does not have th= e authority to pursue such disclaimer with respect to said content, it shal= l notify the LLG of the situation and its recommendations pertaining to suc= h=E2=80=8B; =E2=80=8Bthis motion shall be inactive, vacuous, and=E2=80=8B t= otally=E2=80=8B ignored if the aforementioned motion proposals=C2=A0= (Motion 4, Motion 5)=C2=A0both do not pass.=E2=80= =8B =E2=80=8BAll of this body's authority shall be inferior to and subs= umed by that of the LLG and shall be bounded by such policy of the LLG and = it shall not notify or attempt to regulate any entity or content which is n= ot subject to or the subject of such LLG policy, although it may search for= and review such content.=E2=80=8B It will regulate the officially=E2=80=8B= -=E2=80=8Bdesired design, implementation, usage=E2=80=8B, and enforcement = =E2=80=8Bof any such notice, protocol, or disclaimer=E2=80=8B in the stead = of the LLG directly=E2=80=8B. The body shall consist of an odd number of me= mbers, numbering at least five. The body shall publish all of its =E2=80=8B= debate, =E2=80=8Bdecision=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, = =E2=80=8Band work to the LLG and will notify the pertinent websites and ent= ities and other subjects, according to its own discretion or explicit and d= irect command by the LLG, as to its standards and policies once such are co= ncretely established=E2=80=8B. Whilst the body is constituted, the LLG=E2= =80=8B shall retain total right of oversight and control over, but not nece= ssarily responsibility for, the body and any of its ouput=E2=80=8B or decis= ions or actions or methods or works, as well as any matter belonging to its= domain of purpose=E2=80=8B or its purview; the body shall govern and organ= ize itself and design and enforce its own internal rules, its external stan= dards, etc. =E2=80=8Binsofar as such does not conflict with the decisions o= f the LLG=E2=80=8B, including the contents of this motion=E2=80=8B. The bod= y shall be composed on the earliest of=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B the first 1 Januar= y or first 1 June after its first membership is chosen, after which point i= t shall exist for =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80= =8Byears and six =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmonths and then =E2=80=8Bsha= ll =E2=80=8Bbe dissolved=E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B and discontinue= d in its entirety, unless its lifetime is extended=E2=80=8B and such expira= tion is delayed in part or whole by explicit=E2=80=8B official action of th= e LLG; upon it=E2=80=8Bs expiration=E2=80=8B (described previously)=E2=80= =8B, all of its =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work= , decisions, and other output shall devolve to=E2=80=8B and become the dire= ct responsibility of=E2=80=8B the LLG and shall persist and remain active a= nd valid =E2=80=8Bas =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decisions, and other= output=E2=80=8B (as appropriate) of and in the responsibility of the LLG= =E2=80=8B until the LLG=E2=80=8B explicitly decides otherwise=E2=80=8B=E2= =80=8B=E2=80=8B or upon the establishment and constitution of another body = or organization under the authority of the LLG which has or shall have purv= iew which nonemptily intersects that of the body herein described (in which= case, all aforementioned pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decis= ions, and other output=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherited by and devolved= to it unless otherwise specified by the LLG); the =E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80=8B= membership of the body =E2=80=8Bherein constituted =E2=80=8Bshall be =E2=80= =8Bselected in a manner which the LLG decides =E2=80=8Bto be appropriate, w= hich shall be determined later=E2=80=8B by the LLG; thereafter, all other s= election and regulation of its membership shall be under the primary author= ity and review of the body itself, although any regular selection of new me= mbership shall not occur prior to the elapse of fully two calendrical years= and six calendrical months after the original establishment of the body=E2= =80=8B and selection of its first membership; all membership applications a= nd notice for such application shall be public; eligibility=C2=A0requiremen= ts for membership to the body shall be subject to review and change by the = LLG and must be explicitly established, with explicit permission of the LLG= , prior to the selection of any new membership of the body.=E2=80=8B The na= me of the body herein constituted shall be determined by the LLG during or = prior to, and as part of, the selection of its first membership.=E2=80=8B"

_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members

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