Received: from localhost ([::1]:44656 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eXY63-0007uF-EN; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 11:56:07 -0800 Received: from mail-yb0-f173.google.com ([209.85.213.173]:33426) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eXY5W-0007t2-Ll for llg-members@lojban.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 11:55:36 -0800 Received: by mail-yb0-f173.google.com with SMTP id f16so2283527ybn.0 for ; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 11:55:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=4XDVkaqgNS7u4UiTJSVWt7fv3POIm2wQlTBUeJpfW8g=; b=cmx/OiVELREgs81axTlNKjFbBEIQhcV/tRgjXlzSbiJiyIwuxB1BmH4AbB58zwufB+ XnZTnx/xUMiuG9yi44ivfgINjuHW+ImSUH6VcN2OZNvtiPyGOKSl0Co0fGzTAfXgvvFH 2gr7gVs5vVOxT4RFlnYZErFWRZ7fb5pi5ppRoxlZskuVr0vzy5tdHP755GDLhdtXgSyJ hh5cfb+USuxFaT592u2GR4m8xBQBcDINmR8iNUuuz5nQj0ZcoVRZBlL4AIfg/Vvsk/1H wp9TZechXEWK53cSyXQ5m1FshrWUUqW34a9ji6rhSZKOQ5umlTtJQUnYEOnoPfcB4sg7 x+gA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=4XDVkaqgNS7u4UiTJSVWt7fv3POIm2wQlTBUeJpfW8g=; b=HlIKbOczoVLRMqpiXKuC9kZ6iT7pm/vn1DNbYcH5J/VbQX2cBPeCqzlT7wjXDLP1y4 R0AIf07chSXFHmjLtmSVpKH/LEcbFJEPP3NVato4MwiQqOP0Y9D1hsQHnfud10Py6Ctg Y7PVB07KO7cH4iBnchWRSYY2WwbYPs94Aawe8rcYKxU2m1GD5smywjWRO+vnNxlkSdWX xREanRvKi7Ad5msYogRm0HzWRe97FuWPaJbTrfiAnBUKgGEH/w35uCd54FRq6ZWQHEBy TPNyLAblWSBNoAXeNtBwAeoZr59tZ9D4KWzEwSnez6scY87qAVtDxAS/8rulqVorFkXp OFgQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mLgMPocQqsl8121UUi+Qgzpe7F35jPiMH7Dngpl7aoW3Yc3ke6F 1heHCa7hfWEnQfdcBXa/Xi8PQhqQyS3W00iXfIE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBovjBR1qbCf8M1ImwL+mh6DKKs57SjSLc3imabVLGAUKkOq1d36/W9SPoGWJbFftI4YgXe5qa3zFGhCsPsqJ9Es= X-Received: by 10.37.170.204 with SMTP id t70mr3793514ybi.371.1515182127681; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 11:55:27 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.135.9 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Jan 2018 11:55:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.37.135.9 with HTTP; Fri, 5 Jan 2018 11:55:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <61CCB92E-11C6-4F17-9A63-AF3519E8416D@gmail.com> References: <61CCB92E-11C6-4F17-9A63-AF3519E8416D@gmail.com> From: Curtis Franks Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2018 14:55:27 -0500 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -4.3 (----) X-Spam_score: -4.3 X-Spam_score_int: -42 X-Spam_bar: ---- Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Proposal : Investigation of Unofficialness X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2205502554025157923==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============2205502554025157923== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c19e0a47d95c505620cd4b1" --94eb2c19e0a47d95c505620cd4b1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Jan 5, 2018 14:31, "Riley Martinez-Lynch" wrote: I would support a motion like #5 which requires a disclaimer on lojban.org content that might be easily confused as an official publication of LLG. However, I think we should consider this alongside the option of reserving lojban.org for official publications of LLG. If the latter option does not soon come to fruition, how are we going to determine which content needs such a disclaimer (as mentioned in the former option) and who will be making those decisions and under what authorities and oversight? Will the LLG have to design every aspect of the disclaimer and certify each instance of its usage? Are we going to monitor the relevant content in order to ensure that the disclaimer never gets tampered with or removed? For these purposes and reasons, I would prefer to at least assign someone or some group of people these jobs specifically - and separately from all other LLG business unless we request otherwise (excluding regular reports about what is going on). If either Motion 4 or Motion 5 passes, I want at least this wall put up somewhere, somehow between such work and the normal operations of the LLG. I strongly oppose a commission to "search for and monitor=E2=80=9D (motion = 4) others=E2=80=99 publications for lojban-related content with the purpose of= asking them to add a disclaimer to their content. Even if we had the resources to squander =E2=80=94 and we don=E2=80=99t =E2=80=94 it would reflect badly on= lojban and the LLG. Quite possibly. I am not sure that our resources (as the LLG specifically and directly) would come into it, though. Imagine: Someone discovers lojban, composes a poem, and puts it up on their blog. The next thing they know, they receive a legalistically-worded email asking them to =E2=80=9Cprominently=E2=80=9D declare that, in effect, they= =E2=80=99re not really authorized to use the language. This is not who we are. Such content would not be subject to these policies or such disclaimer, in my view and intention. Using the language is fine - even encouraged. Purporting to update the standards and other things like that, or pretending to be an official representation of the LLG, when such is not the case, is less fine and arguably should be stopped by us. In some sense, we are supposed to safeguard the languages under our sphere of interest, safeguard people from false advertisements or claims concerning these languages, and clearly demarcate and protect our authority. I again informally propose that we add provisions to these motions which protect against these dangers and which allow for discretion (rather than obligated action) on the part of the reviewing body. The message/notice need not be legalistic. That would be up to the body which drafts it. I am categorically opposed to motion 6, which would create some kind of body to "oversee,=E2=80=8B regulate=E2=80=8B, and (insofar as possible) enf= orce=E2=80=9D these policies. It is not and cannot be the business of LLG It no longer would be so. Well, directly so, anyway. to scour the world for =E2=80=9Cviolations=E2=80=9D of our policies, let al= one =E2=80=9Cenforce=E2=80=9D such policies. For that matter, =E2=80=9Coversee=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cregu= late=E2=80=9D don=E2=80=99t harmonize with our mission, either: Our business is to =E2=80=9Cpromote=E2=80=9D and = to =E2=80=9Csupport=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 especially where it comes to those =E2=80=9Cusing=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cexp= erimenting=E2=80=9D with lojban. Arguably, such policy does promote and support some form of Lojban (against competition or variability in its specifications). Some may argue that "experimenting with Lojban" should only constitute its usage in creative works or translations, not experimentation with its structure or functioning/specification. There are not too many places where Lojban is hiding. Our collective human knowledge plus a few good Google searches (and searches on social media) would be good enough to get most of them. For the record, I doubt that YouTube content would run into these problems very frequently in practice. In a sense, we are just protecting our authority and trying to make sure that everyone who encounters the language knows what is considered to be an officially-endorsed lesson or publication about how the language works (I am not too worried about usages of the language) and what is someone's personal position or promotion. Lojban, as I understand it, was born out of the desire to rescue logical language from institutional strangulation. Let us not reverse course. I hear this concern. I am not sure that it applies, but I can understand the fear. On Jan 5, 2018, at 1:00 PM, Curtis Franks wrote= : The basic goal of this motion is to outsource all particular debate and decisions concerning the realization of Motion 4 or Motion 5 to an independent 'contracting' body with a fair amount of autonomy so that we do not have to consider them here (or prior to the passage of those motions). However, I still want the contracting body to be finite in power (hence its restrictions and preset expiration), accountable to us, well-organized so that objections or concerns raised by members while discussing Motion 6 are pre=C3=ABmptively assuaged, and acting on our behalf with the additional property that all of their work becomes LLG policy, property, etc. once the contract ends (thus it would be under LLG control and carry the weight of full policy, work, command, etc. of the LLG pursuant to Motion 4 or Motion 5 or other motions). On Jan 5, 2018 09:51, "Creative Care Services" wrote: > In addition to the two other proposals regarding unofficial content, > included below because this one refers to them, Curtis pointed out that h= e > had made three rather than two on this topic. The one we are considering > here is listed below as number six. > > This motion is now waiting to see if anyone chooses to second it. > > .karis. > > >> *Concerning Unofficial Social Media Presences* >> >> *Motion 4: "*The LLG shall adopt an official policy that the LLG or some >> body constituted by it for such purpose shall search for and monitor soc= ial >> media or blog platforms, accounts, pages, profiles, groups, communities, >> bots, etc. (hereafter called "entities") which in any way whatsoever rel= ate >> to, promote, or use Lojban or other LLG-adopted logical languages and wh= ich >> are not clearly human, personal, non-promoting, or unofficial - and that >> such a body shall request such entities to prominently display a disclai= mer >> stating that they are unofficial and not endorsed by the LLG.*"* >> * * I noted the following caveat with the original discussion which >> became a motion: "(I do not think that we can enforce such requests, jus= t >> make them. But having an official policy about addressing them may be go= od >> and gives us some moral 'standing')"* >> * * Moved by me, seconded by gleki.* >> >> *___* >> >> *Unofficialness Disclaimer* >> >> *Motion 5: "*All non-official pages or content on *.lojban.org must >> contain a disclaimer stating, at least, that the website is owned and >> managed by voluntary people, and that the marked contents are not >> necessarily harmonized with the official design of Lojban and may not >> reflect, let alone perfectly comply with, official specifications of the >> same.*"* >> ** Moved by me, seconded by at least guskant and gleki.* >> >> > > > **** Here it is! **** > > > *Motion 6: "*There shall be =E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2=80=8Bestablished=E2= =80=8B, constituted,=E2=80=8B and >> organized a body=E2=80=8B - under and by the authority of the LLG -=E2= =80=8B which will=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B >> the official implementation and application of LLG policy consistent wit= h >> and pursuant to the content of the aforementioned motion proposals *(id >> est: Motion 4 or Motion 5)*, provided the passage of at least one >> thereof,=E2=80=8B or any similar policy of the LLG=E2=80=8B and which sh= all search for >> either potential violations of the same or appropriate content which sho= uld >> be so disclaimed (regardless of any implemented policy or other mandate, >> and not pertaining to only websites or entities or content subject to th= e >> aforementioned policies of the LLG); when it finds such content but does >> not have the authority to pursue such disclaimer with respect to said >> content, it shall notify the LLG of the situation and its recommendation= s >> pertaining to such=E2=80=8B; =E2=80=8Bthis motion shall be inactive, vac= uous, and=E2=80=8B totally=E2=80=8B >> ignored if the aforementioned motion proposals *(Motion 4, Motion 5)* bo= th >> do not pass.=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8BAll of this body's authority shall be inf= erior to and >> subsumed by that of the LLG and shall be bounded by such policy of the L= LG >> and it shall not notify or attempt to regulate any entity or content whi= ch >> is not subject to or the subject of such LLG policy, although it may sea= rch >> for and review such content.=E2=80=8B It will regulate the officially=E2= =80=8B-=E2=80=8Bdesired >> design, implementation, usage=E2=80=8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8Bof any = such notice, >> protocol, or disclaimer=E2=80=8B in the stead of the LLG directly=E2=80= =8B. The body shall >> consist of an odd number of members, numbering at least five. The body >> shall publish all of its =E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2=80=8Bdecision=E2=80=8B=E2= =80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, =E2=80=8Band work to the LLG and >> will notify the pertinent websites and entities and other subjects, >> according to its own discretion or explicit and direct command by the LL= G, >> as to its standards and policies once such are concretely established=E2= =80=8B. >> Whilst the body is constituted, the LLG=E2=80=8B shall retain total righ= t of >> oversight and control over, but not necessarily responsibility for, the >> body and any of its ouput=E2=80=8B or decisions or actions or methods or= works, as >> well as any matter belonging to its domain of purpose=E2=80=8B or its pu= rview; the >> body shall govern and organize itself and design and enforce its own >> internal rules, its external standards, etc. =E2=80=8Binsofar as such do= es not >> conflict with the decisions of the LLG=E2=80=8B, including the contents = of this >> motion=E2=80=8B. The body shall be composed on the earliest of=E2=80=8B= =E2=80=8B the first 1 >> January or first 1 June after its first membership is chosen, after whic= h >> point it shall exist for =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour =E2=80=8Bcalendric= al =E2=80=8Byears and six >> =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmonths and then =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80=8Bbe= dissolved=E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B and >> discontinued in its entirety, unless its lifetime is extended=E2=80=8B a= nd such >> expiration is delayed in part or whole by explicit=E2=80=8B official act= ion of the >> LLG; upon it=E2=80=8Bs expiration=E2=80=8B (described previously)=E2=80= =8B, all of its =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bpolicy, >> standards, work, decisions, and other output shall devolve to=E2=80=8B a= nd become >> the direct responsibility of=E2=80=8B the LLG and shall persist and rema= in active >> and valid =E2=80=8Bas =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decisions, and o= ther output=E2=80=8B (as >> appropriate) of and in the responsibility of the LLG=E2=80=8B until the = LLG=E2=80=8B >> explicitly decides otherwise=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B or upon the esta= blishment and constitution >> of another body or organization under the authority of the LLG which has= or >> shall have purview which nonemptily intersects that of the body herein >> described (in which case, all aforementioned pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolicy, = standards, >> work, decisions, and other output=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherited b= y and devolved to >> it unless otherwise specified by the LLG); the =E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80=8Bm= embership of the >> body =E2=80=8Bherein constituted =E2=80=8Bshall be =E2=80=8Bselected in = a manner which the LLG >> decides =E2=80=8Bto be appropriate, which shall be determined later=E2= =80=8B by the LLG; >> thereafter, all other selection and regulation of its membership shall b= e >> under the primary authority and review of the body itself, although any >> regular selection of new membership shall not occur prior to the elapse = of >> fully two calendrical years and six calendrical months after the origina= l >> establishment of the body=E2=80=8B and selection of its first membership= ; all >> membership applications and notice for such application shall be public; >> eligibility requirements for membership to the body shall be subject to >> review and change by the LLG and must be explicitly established, with >> explicit permission of the LLG, prior to the selection of any new >> membership of the body.=E2=80=8B The name of the body herein constituted= shall be >> determined by the LLG during or prior to, and as part of, the selection = of >> its first membership.*=E2=80=8B"* >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > > _______________________________________________ Llg-members mailing list Llg-members@lojban.org http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members _______________________________________________ Llg-members mailing list Llg-members@lojban.org http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members --94eb2c19e0a47d95c505620cd4b1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Jan 5, 2018 14:31, "Riley Martinez-Lynch" <shunpiker@gmail.com> wrote:
I would support a motion like #5 which requires a disclaimer on lojban.org content that mi= ght be easily confused as an official publication of LLG. However, I think = we should consider this alongside the option of reserving lojban.org=C2=A0for official publication= s of LLG.

<= /div>
If the latter option does not soon come to fruition,= how are we going to determine which content needs such a disclaimer (as me= ntioned in the former option) and who will be making those decisions and un= der what authorities and oversight? Will the LLG have to design every aspec= t of the disclaimer and certify each instance of its usage? Are we going to= monitor the relevant content in order to ensure that the disclaimer never = gets tampered with or removed?

For these purposes and reasons, I would prefer to at least assign so= meone or some group of people these jobs specifically - and separately from= all other LLG business unless we request otherwise (excluding regular repo= rts about what is going on). If either Motion 4 or Motion 5 passes, I want = at least this wall put up somewhere, somehow between such work and the norm= al operations of the LLG.


I strongly = oppose a commission to "search for and monitor=E2=80=9D (motion 4) oth= ers=E2=80=99 publications for lojban-related content with the purpose of as= king them to add a disclaimer to their content. Even if we had the resource= s to squander =E2=80=94 and we don=E2=80=99t =E2=80=94 it would reflect bad= ly on lojban and the LLG.

Quite possibly.

I am not sure that our resources (as the LLG= specifically and directly) would come into it, though.


Imagine: Someone discovers lojban, composes a poem, and pu= ts it up on their blog. The next thing they know, they receive a legalistic= ally-worded email asking them to =E2=80=9Cprominently=E2=80=9D declare that= , in effect, they=E2=80=99re not really authorized to use the language. Thi= s is not who we are.

Such content would not be subject to thes= e policies or such disclaimer, in my view and intention.=C2=A0 Using the la= nguage is fine - even encouraged. Purporting to update the standards and ot= her things like that, or pretending to be an official representation of the= LLG, when such is not the case, is less fine and arguably should be stoppe= d by us. In some sense, we are supposed to safeguard the languages under ou= r sphere of interest, safeguard people from false advertisements or claims = concerning these languages, and clearly demarcate and protect our authority= .

I again informally pro= pose that we add provisions to these motions which protect against these da= ngers and which allow for discretion (rather than obligated action) on the = part of the reviewing body.

The message/notice need not be legalistic. That would be up to the body= which drafts it.


I am categorically op= posed to motion 6, which would create some kind of body to "oversee,= =E2=80=8B regulate=E2=80=8B, and (insofar as possible) enforce=E2=80=9D the= se policies.=C2=A0It is not and cannot be the business of LLG

= It no longer would be so. Well, directly so, anyway.

t= o scour the world for =E2=80=9Cviolations=E2=80=9D of our policies, let alo= ne =E2=80=9Cenforce=E2=80=9D such policies. For that matter, =E2=80=9Covers= ee=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cregulate=E2=80=9D don=E2=80=99t harmonize with our= mission, either: Our business is to =E2=80=9Cpromote=E2=80=9D and to =E2= =80=9Csupport=E2=80=9D =E2=80=94 especially where it comes to those =E2=80= =9Cusing=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cexperimenting=E2=80=9D with lojban.=C2=A0

Arguably, such policy does promote and support some form of Lojb= an (against competition or variability in its specifications).

Some may argue that "experiment= ing with Lojban" should only constitute its usage in creative works or= translations, not experimentation with its structure or functioning/specif= ication.

There are not t= oo many places where Lojban is hiding. Our collective human knowledge plus = a few good Google searches (and searches on social media) would be good eno= ugh to get most of them. For the record, I doubt that YouTube content would= run into these problems very frequently in practice.

In a sense, we are just protecting our author= ity and trying to make sure that everyone who encounters the language knows= what is considered to be an officially-endorsed lesson or publication abou= t how the language works (I am not too worried about usages of the language= ) and what is someone's personal position or promotion.



Lojban, as I understand = it, was born out of the desire to rescue logical language from institutiona= l strangulation. Let us not reverse course.
<= /div>

I hear this concer= n. I am not sure that it applies, but I can understand the fear.


On Jan 5, 2018, at 1:00 PM, Curtis Franks <curtis.w.franks@gmail.com>= ; wrote:

The basic goal of = this motion is to outsource all particular debate and decisions concerning = the realization of Motion 4 or Motion 5 to an independent 'contracting&= #39; body with a fair amount of autonomy so that we do not have to consider= them here (or prior to the passage of those motions). However, I still wan= t the contracting body to be finite in power (hence its restrictions and pr= eset expiration), accountable to us, well-organized so that objections or c= oncerns raised by members while discussing Motion 6 are pre=C3=ABmptively a= ssuaged, and acting on our behalf with the additional property that all of = their work becomes LLG policy, property, etc. once the contract ends (thus = it would be under LLG control and carry the weight of full policy, work, co= mmand, etc. of the LLG pursuant to Motion 4 or Motion 5 or other motions).<= /div>

On Jan 5, 2018 09:51, "Creative Care Services&quo= t; <comcaresv= cs@gmail.com> wrote:
In addition to the two other propo= sals regarding=C2=A0 unofficial content, included below because this one re= fers to them, Curtis pointed out that he had made three rather than two on = this topic. The one we are considering here is listed below as number six.<= div>
This motion is now waiting to see if anyone chooses to s= econd it.=C2=A0

.karis.=C2=A0

=

Concern= ing Unofficial Social Media Presences

Moti= on 4: "The LLG shall adopt an official policy that the LLG or some= body constituted by it for such purpose shall search for and monitor socia= l media or blog platforms, accounts, pages, profiles, groups, communities, = bots, etc. (hereafter called "entities") which in any way whatsoe= ver relate to, promote, or use Lojban or other LLG-adopted logical language= s and which are not clearly human, personal, non-promoting, or unofficial -= and that such a body shall request such entities to prominently display a = disclaimer stating that they are unofficial and not endorsed by the LLG.= "
=C2=A0* I noted the following caveat with the origin= al discussion which became a motion: "(I do not think that we can enfo= rce such requests, just make them. But having an official policy about addr= essing them may be good and gives us some moral 'standing')"
=C2=A0* Moved by me, seconded by gleki.

=
___

Unofficia= lness Disclaimer

Motion 5: "All non-off= icial pages or content on *.lojban.org=C2=A0must contain a disclaimer stating, at least, that the= website is owned and managed by voluntary people, and that the marked cont= ents are not necessarily harmonized with the official design of Lojban and = may not reflect, let alone perfectly comply with, official specifications o= f the same."
* Moved by me, seconded by at least guskant= and gleki.



=C2=A0**** Here it= is! ****


<= div dir=3D"ltr">
Motion 6: "There shall be =E2=80=8Ba= uthorized, =E2=80=8Bestablished=E2=80=8B, constituted,=E2=80=8B and organiz= ed a body=E2=80=8B - under and by the authority of the LLG -=E2=80=8B which= will=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B the official implementation and application of LLG = policy consistent with and pursuant=C2=A0to the content of the aforemention= ed motion proposals=C2=A0(id est: Motion 4 or Motion 5)= , provided the passage of at least one thereof,=E2=80=8B or any= similar policy of the LLG=E2=80=8B and which shall search for either poten= tial violations of the same or appropriate content which should be so discl= aimed (regardless of any implemented policy or other mandate, and not perta= ining to only websites or entities or content subject to the aforementioned= policies of the LLG); when it finds such content but does not have the aut= hority to pursue such disclaimer with respect to said content, it shall not= ify the LLG of the situation and its recommendations pertaining to such=E2= =80=8B; =E2=80=8Bthis motion shall be inactive, vacuous, and=E2=80=8B total= ly=E2=80=8B ignored if the aforementioned motion proposals=C2=A0(Motion 4, Motion 5)=C2=A0both do not pass.=E2=80=8B = =E2=80=8BAll of this body's authority shall be inferior to and subsumed= by that of the LLG and shall be bounded by such policy of the LLG and it s= hall not notify or attempt to regulate any entity or content which is not s= ubject to or the subject of such LLG policy, although it may search for and= review such content.=E2=80=8B It will regulate the officially=E2=80=8B-=E2= =80=8Bdesired design, implementation, usage=E2=80=8B, and enforcement =E2= =80=8Bof any such notice, protocol, or disclaimer=E2=80=8B in the stead of = the LLG directly=E2=80=8B. The body shall consist of an odd number of membe= rs, numbering at least five. The body shall publish all of its =E2=80=8Bdeb= ate, =E2=80=8Bdecision=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, =E2= =80=8Band work to the LLG and will notify the pertinent websites and entiti= es and other subjects, according to its own discretion or explicit and dire= ct command by the LLG, as to its standards and policies once such are concr= etely established=E2=80=8B. Whilst the body is constituted, the LLG=E2=80= =8B shall retain total right of oversight and control over, but not necessa= rily responsibility for, the body and any of its ouput=E2=80=8B or decision= s or actions or methods or works, as well as any matter belonging to its do= main of purpose=E2=80=8B or its purview; the body shall govern and organize= itself and design and enforce its own internal rules, its external standar= ds, etc. =E2=80=8Binsofar as such does not conflict with the decisions of t= he LLG=E2=80=8B, including the contents of this motion=E2=80=8B. The body s= hall be composed on the earliest of=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B the first 1 January o= r first 1 June after its first membership is chosen, after which point it s= hall exist for =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8By= ears and six =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmonths and then =E2=80=8Bshall = =E2=80=8Bbe dissolved=E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B and discontinued i= n its entirety, unless its lifetime is extended=E2=80=8B and such expiratio= n is delayed in part or whole by explicit=E2=80=8B official action of the L= LG; upon it=E2=80=8Bs expiration=E2=80=8B (described previously)=E2=80=8B, = all of its =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, dec= isions, and other output shall devolve to=E2=80=8B and become the direct re= sponsibility of=E2=80=8B the LLG and shall persist and remain active and va= lid =E2=80=8Bas =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decisions, and other outp= ut=E2=80=8B (as appropriate) of and in the responsibility of the LLG=E2=80= =8B until the LLG=E2=80=8B explicitly decides otherwise=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B= =E2=80=8B or upon the establishment and constitution of another body or org= anization under the authority of the LLG which has or shall have purview wh= ich nonemptily intersects that of the body herein described (in which case,= all aforementioned pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decisions, = and other output=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherited by and devolved to it= unless otherwise specified by the LLG); the =E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80=8Bmember= ship of the body =E2=80=8Bherein constituted =E2=80=8Bshall be =E2=80=8Bsel= ected in a manner which the LLG decides =E2=80=8Bto be appropriate, which s= hall be determined later=E2=80=8B by the LLG; thereafter, all other selecti= on and regulation of its membership shall be under the primary authority an= d review of the body itself, although any regular selection of new membersh= ip shall not occur prior to the elapse of fully two calendrical years and s= ix calendrical months after the original establishment of the body=E2=80=8B= and selection of its first membership; all membership applications and not= ice for such application shall be public; eligibility=C2=A0requirements for= membership to the body shall be subject to review and change by the LLG an= d must be explicitly established, with explicit permission of the LLG, prio= r to the selection of any new membership of the body.=E2=80=8B The name of = the body herein constituted shall be determined by the LLG during or prior = to, and as part of, the selection of its first membership.=E2=80=8B"

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Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members

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Llg-me= mbers@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo= /llg-members


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Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members


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