Received: from localhost ([::1]:42770 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eY4uP-0008PH-FE; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 22:58:17 -0800 Received: from mail-wm0-f68.google.com ([74.125.82.68]:44769) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eY4tr-0008NJ-KS for llg-members@lojban.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 22:57:46 -0800 Received: by mail-wm0-f68.google.com with SMTP id t8so8903794wmc.3 for ; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 22:57:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=8tCMbcY0LHwp6Z0NH8WkwUI5IXIYJ4hpj6561jl3KAQ=; b=Y/Ae0efsdu1neigAe8XWWvkxOJo2fecSAuh8xxCXgTwvCPyUH1R1u0WCJSgIlJNjw/ hcBk5fz/LE+12ux/DKo8aTBLX8eSTToo084P7pJ91BXLQrURb9Jml7D7Ndg1m/Go2FsR IoJIJJThzeISOjVgmwuKT+em8TtD9dN4kFE9vkkwhHEomem9QoHYqHbg2L4f3QgwP9Z6 c9aVvYVk+33aeVvgcfuOlwOw+0JWBrTpGdKS6Zw3w4kjpibYi7hf/MHghHbS3O143z28 Z8jSZxhUAV03m/0MDIDd8wWJmp9hEJINQVabkWnBWcc6z5Ft4v5R7e2ywG5rGXHFG+pj 20qw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=8tCMbcY0LHwp6Z0NH8WkwUI5IXIYJ4hpj6561jl3KAQ=; b=BRpH68KgiaLUcfcYrtl6MgTLxZ/9heycqe3ZNfgSeNAjmf/IYGY3ohASXvWlvDTjpa ZQ7p3W0HrD3sElGiIvRuC2TepKaCdB79C5aqJrGJZIvH48bbR2NEC3ksziVyuQmmntqq SpeSBIS70TkIY45yEOnD4jSs5srwNPVafJYBkl4rr8PdeBWFxT+kc5rFu3XfaN+Gg1RO EqErDFJb2DWtUSZngl2YiQPlAbNelq9JQWGkv+0n0ofN+7GczGpD6D0cDPQ/1pk749FQ 3n4aqyZVnR2EFJQlvn55tPzFejQ3yAKYdnYAXlXgni2N1mINA6d5tl/yrDusFoykiW9L xMSQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJ/ogaJGNrO9Yec+fes7jtchS7bMRvRnrGXs6jJb4vxlrmcayDd r9hjowtXLOe7KgR6I0no4kTN46SYhuFtfQqDXA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBoumVWqPzUGcPWbhJQ+qZ+rTtp5VS6AOR6iYhqC9CmHZrxraeJRYyz8UvCIZehsNkfNhf1twp5rrqgHcvQ1zx1E= X-Received: by 10.80.138.139 with SMTP id j11mr11758732edj.36.1515308256426; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 22:57:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.173.219 with HTTP; Sat, 6 Jan 2018 22:56:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 09:56:56 +0300 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_bar: - Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Proposal : Investigation of Unofficialness X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0148670901923181733==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============0148670901923181733== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c0dcb8259804305622a3211" --94eb2c0dcb8259804305622a3211 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2018-01-07 9:52 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks : > "Syntax-oriented content" is composed of things like proposals for how > Lojban should work, analysis of how it does work, perhaps some discussion= s > or proposals concerning parsers, maybe reference guides, and stuff like > that. It is not poems or stories or translations - you know: like, actual > normal reading/content. It is more 'about' than 'in' the language. > > The class of all zi'evla includes that of all fu'ivla (at least in one - > the intended - sense). It is basically the set of all brivla which are no= t > gismu or lujvo. (I think. I am really tired, so I may have gotten that > wrong. But you suggested the standard alternative, so you already know wh= at > I mean. :P ) > The word {zi'evla} is not officially documented so such explanations must be included in the documents to be voted upon. But maybe it's not the right time to include verbose explanations into the motion since it can theoretically be disapproved. > > On Jan 7, 2018 01:37, "Gleki Arxokuna" wrote= : > >> What is "syntax-oriented content"? >> What is "zi'evla"? Maybe, fu'ivla? >> >> 2018-01-07 1:46 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks : >> >>> I rescind my proposal of and support for Motion 6; I 'unmove' it. I >>> hereby proffer and move Motion 6 Amended 1ce, as described next: >>> " >>> >>> ****** Motion 6 Amended 1ce ****** >>> A motion and charter for a body: >>> >>> ___ >>> >>> >>> *** Section 0 - Establishment and Purpose: >>> >>> Clause 0: >>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause A: There shall herein be =E2=80=8Bauthorized, = =E2=80=8Bestablished=E2=80=8B, >>> constituted,=E2=80=8B and organized a body=E2=80=8B - under and by the = authority of the LLG >>> -=E2=80=8B which will=E2=80=8B (according to its discretion) oversee,= =E2=80=8B regulate=E2=80=8B, and >>> (insofar as possible) enforce=E2=80=8B the official implementation and = application >>> of LLG policy consistent with and pursuant to the content of whichever = of >>> the following items have been passed by the LLG and are in effect: (1) = any >>> of aforementioned motion proposals (id est: Motion 4, Motion 5); (2) an= y >>> similar policy of the LLG which has been explicitly delegated to it. >>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause B: According to its discretion, this same body >>> additionally shall search for both (1) potential violations of the same >>> policies (as in Section 0 Clause 0 Subclause A and in accord with Secti= on 0 >>> Clause 0 Subclause C), and (2) any content whatsoever which should be s= o >>> disclaimed (regardless of any implemented policy or other mandate, and = not >>> necessarily pertaining to only websites or entities or content subject = to >>> the aforementioned policies of the LLG) and which has been identified t= o be >>> appropriate for such disclaimer. >>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Regardless of any other provision of the LLG = or this >>> motion (excluding Section 1 Clause 7), the primary focus of this body s= hall >>> be on: (1) official-seeming accounts, pages, or other entities which ar= e >>> not clearly personal and which are not endorsed by or under the direct >>> control of the LLG; (2) teaching materials concerning topics related to= the >>> LLG; (3) syntax-oriented content which may be confused for being offici= ally >>> endorsed by the LLG, particular that which makes proposals or analysis >>> concerning the structure or functionality of a language; (4) the curati= on >>> of LLG-associated or officially endorsed websites, publications, and >>> content within its purview. Only with rare and carefully considered >>> exception will this body concern itself with: (1) particular works in o= r >>> usages of any language or version thereof, particularly if they are >>> creative or primarily intended to be a non-instructive or >>> position-nonassertive texts/content concerning the structure or >>> functionality of a language; (2) obviously personal accounts or users w= ho >>> do not claim official endorsement by the LLG for the content which they >>> publish. Section 1 Clause 4, Section 1 Clause 5, and Section 1 Clause 7 >>> shall be its primary legal, moral, operational, and intentional constra= ints >>> and shall have dominance over nearly all other concerns. >>> >>> Clause 1: The body described in Section 0 Clause 0 shall herein be >>> simply known as "the Body", "this Body", or (as appropriate) "it"; (not= e >>> the orthographic casing of the first two options). This motion, upon it= s >>> passage and entry into force, shall act as the charter for this Body an= d >>> shall be active policy of the LLG. >>> >>> Clause 2: This entire motion shall be inactive, vacuous, ineffective, >>> and=E2=80=8B totally=E2=80=8B ignored if: (1) Motion 4 and Motion 5 bot= h do not pass prior >>> to this motion or during the same meeting of the LLG as that in which t= his >>> motion was most recently proposed; (2) there is a failure to incorporat= e >>> this Body according to Section 3 by 12:00 (noon) UTC of 1 January A.D. = 2020 >>> or within one full calendrical year of the passage of this motion by th= e >>> LLG (whichever is later); or (3) a directive according to or in the >>> pursuance of Section 1 Clause 4 is issued with the authorities therein >>> described. >>> >>> ___ >>> >>> >>> *** Section 1 - Operation and Constraints: >>> >>> Clause 0: This Body will autonomously regulate the officially=E2=80=8B-= =E2=80=8Bdesired >>> design, implementation, usage=E2=80=8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8Bof any= such notice, >>> protocol, or disclaimer pursuant to Section 0=E2=80=8B Clause 0 in the = stead of the >>> LLG directly=E2=80=8B. >>> >>> Clause 1: The Body shall publish all of its =E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2=80=8Bd= ecision=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, >>> =E2=80=8Band work to the LLG at least one per any twelve-month-long int= erval or >>> immediately upon the request of the LLG or upon its expiration or >>> termination. It shall save and preserve all documentation of such, as a >>> work of the Body, in perpetuity and in unmodified, properly maintained = and >>> connected and organized, and complete form. The body shall proffer any >>> documentation to an appropriate law enforcement or legal official upon >>> their request. >>> >>> Clause 2: The Body will notify the pertinent websites and entities and >>> other subjects (pursuant to Section 0 Clause 0), according to its own >>> discretion or according to the explicit and direct command by the LLG, = as >>> to its standards and policies once such are concretely established=E2= =80=8B. Such >>> notification shall be only in a manner deemed suitable by the Body and >>> (when appropriate) the LLG directly. >>> >>> Clause 3: Whilst the Body is constituted, the LLG=E2=80=8B shall retain= total >>> right of oversight and control over, but not necessarily responsibility >>> for, the Body and any of its ouput=E2=80=8B or decisions or actions or = methods or >>> works, as well as any matter belonging to its domain of purpose=E2=80= =8B or its >>> purview. >>> >>> Clause 4: All of this Body's authority shall be inferior to, derived >>> from, and subsumed by that of the LLG or the law and shall be bounded b= y >>> any policy or command of the LLG or the law. It shall, in good faith, >>> endeavor to totally comply with and fulfill any such policy or command = of >>> LLG or the law. It shall also be subject to the following conditions: >>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 0: If the LLG ceases to exist, then this Body sh= all >>> immediately cease to exist too. >>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 1: If this charter becomes inoperable or is tota= lly >>> deleted or abolished, then this Body shall immediately cease to exist a= s if >>> naturally expired (as in Section 1 Clause 8). If Section 0 Clause 2 app= lies >>> or is satisfied, then this charter is deemed to be totally inoperable. >>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 2: At any time and for any purpose (or none), th= e LLG or >>> law may cause the utter and immediate termination of this Body or may h= alt >>> or direct any of its works, debates, or other processes. While under >>> investigation by the law or officers thereof, this body shall continue = and >>> operate such that it complies with the directives of the law or the >>> aforementioned officer and reduces all other endeavors so as to maximiz= e >>> its ability to comply therewith - and all other provisions to the contr= ary, >>> including those by or according to this charter, shall be ignored. >>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 3: The LLG (within the restrictions and permissi= ons of >>> the law) retains the sole right to edit or amend, add to, remove from, = or >>> delete or abolish this charter or any policy of the LLG which sustains = this >>> Body. >>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 4: In all cases, the law or officers thereof sha= ll be >>> superior to the LLG. >>> >>> Clause 5: The Body shall not notify or attempt to in any way regulate o= r >>> pressure any entity or content which is not subject to or the subject o= f >>> such LLG policy - although it may search for and review such content. >>> >>> Clause 6: If and when this Body finds such content as that which is >>> described in Section 0 Clause 0 Subclause B but does not have the autho= rity >>> to pursue such disclaimer with respect to said content, or if and when >>> there is lack of implemented policy or mandate concerning some content,= it >>> shall - according to its discretion - notify the LLG of the situation a= nd >>> its recommendations pertaining to such=E2=80=8B.=E2=80=8B The Body shal= l take no further >>> action regarding or relating to such content unless explicitly authoriz= ed >>> to do by the LLG. >>> >>> Clause 7: >>> Main provision: Regardless of other provisions of the LLG, the actions >>> of this Body shall be minimalistic, restrained, friendly and >>> non-aggressive, and welcoming of experimentation with or in - as well a= s >>> welcoming of any usage or promotion of - any version of any language wh= ich >>> is endorsed or promoted by the LLG or which otherwise belongs to the >>> purview or mandate of this Body or of the LLG (collectively described >>> herein as "language(s)"). It shall actively encourage further innovatio= n, >>> exploration, usage, promotion, and creative or technical or casual exer= cise >>> of such languages in all of its external interactions. >>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause A: This body never shall attack, defame, insult,= or >>> pressure (1) any users/authors of or in the relevant language(s) (or th= eir >>> associated communities) nor (2) the particular personal usage of any >>> version of any language or other related work; it shall never act in a >>> manner which stifles or discourages anyone from enjoying, exploring, us= ing, >>> or promoting any such language; it shall take especial care regarding >>> interactions with prospective or potentially new users, authors, and >>> community members, as well as people or entities with whom it has littl= e >>> prior interaction. In such cases, it shall at most request that the >>> author(s): (1) sufficiently define new or experimental cmavo, gismu, ra= fsi, >>> zi'evla, and cmene, as well as sufficiently define and indicate nonstan= dard >>> definitions thereof (regardless of their newness or other nature) or of >>> lujvo; (2) sufficiently identify and explain nonstandard grammatical >>> structures which appear or are used within the content, or sufficiently >>> describe the version(s) of the language which they are employing therei= n. >>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause B: Any particular policy, decision, work, action= , or >>> other output by this body shall be explicitly and particularly reviewed >>> against the provisions of Section 0 and Section 1, particular Section 1 >>> Clause 7, and the standards thereof prior to its finalization and >>> implementation. Such review shall be conducted by the Body as a whole o= r by >>> its leadership. >>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: When there is doubt within the membership of = the Body >>> concerning a potential decision or course of action, its primary prefer= ence >>> shall be inaction, acceptance, and community-building. >>> >>> >>> Clause 8: >>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause A: After its first composition (as described in = Section 2 >>> Clause 2), this Body shall exist for =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour =E2= =80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Byears plus >>> six =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmonths. >>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause B: Then (upon the completion of Section 1 Clause= 8 >>> Subclause A), it =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80=8Bbe disauthorized, dissolved=E2= =80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B >>> discontinued, and disincorporated in its entirety - unless its lifetime= is >>> extended=E2=80=8B and such expiration is delayed in part or whole by ex= plicit=E2=80=8B >>> official action of the LLG. This shall constitute the natural expiratio= n of >>> the Body. >>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Upon it=E2=80=8Bs natural expiration=E2=80=8B= (as described in Section >>> 1 Clause 8 Subclause B)=E2=80=8B, each of its =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80= =8B=E2=80=8Bpolicies, standards, work(s), >>> decisions, and other output shall return to=E2=80=8B and become the dir= ect >>> responsibility of=E2=80=8B the LLG and all documentation by the Body (i= ncluding >>> thereof) shall be permanently given to the sole care of LLG; such thing= s >>> shall persist and remain active and valid =E2=80=8Bas policies, standar= ds, work(s), >>> decisions, and other output=E2=80=8B (as appropriate) of and in the res= ponsibility >>> of the LLG=E2=80=8B until: (1) the LLG=E2=80=8B explicitly decides othe= rwise or modifies or >>> cancels them;=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B or (2) upon the establishment = and constitution of another >>> (second) body or organization under the authority of the LLG which has = or >>> shall have purview which nonemptily intersects that of the Body herein >>> described (according to Section 0) - in which case, all aforementioned >>> pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decisions, and other output= =E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be >>> inherited by and devolved to this second body or organization unless >>> otherwise specified by the LLG. >>> >>> Clause 9: >>> Main provision: All questions or proposals of whether to notify an >>> external entity or subject (as described in Section 0 or Section 1) mus= t be >>> clearly and explicitly stated to the members of the Body in an organize= d >>> and easy to find manner during an official meeting of the Body; no exte= rnal >>> or externally-oriented action or implementation resulting from or resol= ving >>> such questions or proposals, including any notification, may be conduct= ed >>> or undertaken in any portion or degree, until the elapse of four full >>> calendrical days plus a unit of time (which is to be determined by the = Body >>> according to Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0) after: (1) appropriate deb= ate >>> is held and concluded; (2) a clear, relevant decision is appropriately >>> developed and agreed to by the members (possibly including the special >>> determination of the aforementioned unit of time); and (3) explicit and >>> particular certification of the result regarding its compliance with >>> Section 1 Clause 7 according to the internal regulations of the body. T= he >>> following conditions and procedures shall further apply: >>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 0 - Determination of Delay: The aforementioned u= nit of >>> time which is to be determined by the Body for the delay of an >>> implementation or action based upon an externally-oriented decision sha= ll >>> in all cases be at least ten full calendrical days. If no special and >>> explicit decision concerning the value of this unit is made during the >>> accompanying more-general decision/resolution, or is made in accordance >>> with or by internal regulations of and by the Body in advance, then its >>> value shall be ten full calendrical days. >>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 1 - Minimal Requirements for Decisions: Appropri= ate and >>> actionable agreement by the members will, in all cases, be constituted = by >>> the explicit concent of at least a strict majority of the attending mem= bers >>> and in compliance with further internal regulations made by the Body in >>> advance. >>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 2 - Default Decision: Concerning potential exter= nal >>> actions or externally-oriented decisions, the default position and resu= lt >>> of any proposed action or question shall, unless explicitly agreed to b= y a >>> strict majority of the membership, be utter inaction (including a total >>> lack of any notification or pressure, or indication thereof, of the >>> external entity or subject) in anything related to the question of prop= osal >>> in any manner whatsoever and compliance with Section 1 Clause 7. If no >>> clear, relevant, non-default-valued decision for a given question or >>> proposal is appropriately made and agreed to, then such a default resul= t >>> shall be perfectly obeyed by the Body and all members thereof. >>> =E2=80=A2 Procedure 0 - Veto: While the following procedure is under= way and >>> in effect, the aforementioned delay (defined in Main Provision of Secti= on 1 >>> Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0) shall not elapse furthe= r, >>> instead becoming paused; upon the failure or completion of any attempt = at >>> the utilization of this procedure, such delay shall resume its elapsing >>> from the state in which it was paused; completion or fulfillment of Ste= p 0 >>> or Step 1 shall not pause the elapse of said delay until both Step 0 an= d >>> Step 1 are completed and fulfilled. This procedure shall follow the >>> following steps (where Step 0 and Step 1 are mutually exchangeable): >>> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 0: Any non-censored member of the Body c= an, for any >>> reason whatsoever (or none), formally request that the LLG review any >>> non-default-valued resolution or decision of any such question or propo= sal >>> described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9; such request mus= t be >>> submitted to the LLG in explicit fashion, and in a fashion which the >>> members of the LLG can understand, within the delaying time interval >>> described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 and in Section 1 >>> Clause 9 Condition 0. If the LLG is not currently meeting or accepting = such >>> petitions, then the member can instead make explicit (to the other memb= ers >>> of the Body) their intentions to do so once the LLG meets and is open t= o >>> accepting such petitions; they must fulfill this intention in a timely >>> manner at the next opportunity to do so, else this Procedure fails (or = this >>> Step is not satisfied) and the Body may proceed as if it was never invo= ked. >>> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 1: Whilst such notice or intention (as d= escribed in Step >>> 0 of this Procedure) is made by the member, they are also to explicitly= and >>> clearly notify the Body of the same and of their intended invocation of >>> this provision (Section 1 Clause 9 Procedure 0); they are to do so with= in >>> the unit of time described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 = and >>> in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0. >>> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 2: Once Step 0 and Step 1 (each of this = Procedure) are >>> fulfilled (in either order), this Procedure takes effect and all releva= nt >>> actions of the Body are to halt immediately and the decision described = in >>> the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 which is relevant to the >>> invocation of this Procedure shall not be acted upon or implemented or >>> output in any matter whatsoever until the LLG makes a decision concerni= ng >>> it and all related discussions. If either Step 0 or Step 1 is not satis= fied >>> within the delay interval described in the Main Provision of Section 1 >>> Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0, then this Procedure wil= l >>> not be considered to be underway or in effect, and the Body can proceed= as >>> it was and the aforementioned time delay shall continue elapsing (havin= g >>> never been paused); if Step 0 and Step 1 were both satisfied within the >>> time delay interval aforementioned, then the elapse of said delay will >>> immediately halt and be paused. This Step shall apply and be obeyed eve= n if >>> its applicability is not recognized by the leadership of the Body in a >>> sufficiently timely manner. >>> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 3: Once such decision (as referenced in = Step 2 of this >>> Procedure) is made by the LLG, this Procedure is completed and this Bod= y >>> shall immediately and fully act accordingly and in good faith with the >>> decision of the LLG (regardless of their original decision concerning t= he >>> question or proposal). If the relevant issue is never resolved by the L= LG >>> during the meeting during which they are notified of the usage of this >>> procedure, then the default position on the question or proposal shall >>> fully apply and this Body cannot again entertain or take up such or rel= ated >>> question or proposal (or other implementation thereof), unless the new >>> proposal be to cease some relevant action and comply with Section 1 Cla= use >>> 7, until the LLG so decides; while this lattermost condition applies, t= his >>> Procedure shall be considered to be ongoing and in effect. >>> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Definitions: The state of being censored, as = referenced in >>> this provision, refers to the provisions of Section 1 Clause 10; the >>> default (or default state or default position) herein referenced is tha= t >>> which is described in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 2. >>> >>> Clause 10: The Body shall have the power to censor its own members in a >>> formal manner. The Body shall, in advance, decide regulations concernin= g >>> the censorship of any of their members via unanimous and explicit decis= ion >>> after appropriate notice to all members. Any decision to actually imple= ment >>> the censoring of any member must be made by unanimous decision of all >>> members, excepting the subject of the proposed censorship, and only upo= n >>> appropriate agreement by the LLG; in any case, no state of censorship s= hall >>> endure for more than one-hundred forty-four full calendrical days. >>> Constraints on participation or decision making within the Body which a= re >>> to result from censorship shall only be those which accord with and res= ult >>> from the policy of the LLG (including this charter) and the explicit, p= rior >>> internal regulations of the Body. >>> >>> Clause 11: The Body shall immediately, during its first meeting after >>> incorporation according to Section 3, undertake to establish internal r= ules >>> and regulations which satisfy and enable the provisions of this section= (id >>> est: Section 1). >>> >>> ___ >>> >>> >>> *** Section 2 - Composition: >>> >>> Clause 0 - Membership: >>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause A: The Body shall consist of an odd number of me= mbers, >>> numbering at least five, who shall be members of the community or peopl= e >>> acceptable to the Body and the LLG and who accept their membership to t= he >>> Body. >>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause B: The =E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80=8Bmembership of the= Body shall be =E2=80=8Bselected >>> in a manner which the LLG decides =E2=80=8Bto be appropriate, which sha= ll be >>> determined later=E2=80=8B by the LLG. >>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Thereafter, all other (later) selections and >>> (internal) regulations of its membership shall be under the primary, >>> autonomous, and direct authority and review of the Body itself, subject= to >>> the following conditions: >>> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Condition 0: Any regular/normal selection of = new membership >>> shall not occur prior to the elapse of fully two calendrical years plus= six >>> calendrical months after both the original establishment of this Body a= nd >>> the incorporation of this Body according to Section 3. >>> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Condition 1: Any change to such selection or = regulation shall >>> become effective only upon due notice to all members and the elapse of >>> fourteen full calendrical days after its passage, excepting the case of= an >>> emergency as determined by an at-least-two-thirds supermajority of the >>> attending members. >>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause D: All membership applications to the Body and n= otice for >>> such application shall be entirely public. >>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause E: All eligibility requirements for membership t= o the >>> Body shall be entirely subject to review and change by the LLG and must= be >>> explicitly established, with the explicit permission of the LLG, prior = to >>> the selection of any new membership of the Body. This and other basic >>> internal regulations shall be the first business to be determined by th= e >>> Body during its first official meeting according to Section 2 Clause 2. >>> >>> Clause 1 - Organization: The Body shall govern and organize itself - an= d >>> design and enforce its own internal rules, its external standards, etc.= - >>> =E2=80=8Bautonomously insofar as such does not conflict with the decisi= ons of the >>> LLG=E2=80=8B, including the contents of this motion=E2=80=8B. Such basi= c internal >>> regulations shall be the first business to be determined by the Body du= ring >>> its first official meeting according to Section 2 Clause 2. >>> >>> Clause 2 - Event of Composition and First Meeting: This Body shall be >>> first composed on the earliest instance of 12:00 (noon) UTC of 1 Januar= y or >>> 1 June which is at least thirty-six mutually emptily-intersecting, >>> twenty-four-hour-long intervals after its incorporation (as described i= n >>> Section 3). It shall then officially meet for the first time, at a time= and >>> manner according to the wishes of all of its members. Its first busines= s >>> shall be to determine its basic internal rules and regulations pursuant= to >>> each provision of this charter. >>> >>> ___ >>> >>> >>> *** Section 3 - Incorporation: >>> >>> Clause 0: This body shall be incorporated upon and only upon the >>> completion and simultaneous fulfillment of each of the following condit= ions: >>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 0: The first membership of this Body having been= properly >>> selected, satisfying Section 2 Clause 0 with regard to people who have >>> capacity and willingness to maintain and realize active membership in t= he >>> Body. >>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 1: A general name for this Body is determined by= the LLG >>> in an official act thereof. >>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 2: Upon review of the purported satisfaction of = all other >>> conditions of Section 3 Clause 0 by the LLG, event of an explicit >>> declaration and granting of incorporation of and to the Body by the LLG >>> occurs. >>> >>> ", >>> >>> where: >>> =E2=80=A2 Any reference to Motion 4 and Motion 5 shall be understood t= o refer >>> to the same motions as those so labelled in this current email chain or= any >>> modification, successor, continuance, or replacement of the same. >>> >>> On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Creative Care Services < >>> comcaresvcs@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> In addition to the two other proposals regarding unofficial content, >>>> included below because this one refers to them, Curtis pointed out tha= t he >>>> had made three rather than two on this topic. The one we are consideri= ng >>>> here is listed below as number six. >>>> >>>> This motion is now waiting to see if anyone chooses to second it. >>>> >>>> .karis. >>>> >>>> >>>>> *Concerning Unofficial Social Media Presences* >>>>> >>>>> *Motion 4: "*The LLG shall adopt an official policy that the LLG or >>>>> some body constituted by it for such purpose shall search for and mon= itor >>>>> social media or blog platforms, accounts, pages, profiles, groups, >>>>> communities, bots, etc. (hereafter called "entities") which in any wa= y >>>>> whatsoever relate to, promote, or use Lojban or other LLG-adopted log= ical >>>>> languages and which are not clearly human, personal, non-promoting, o= r >>>>> unofficial - and that such a body shall request such entities to >>>>> prominently display a disclaimer stating that they are unofficial and= not >>>>> endorsed by the LLG.*"* >>>>> * * I noted the following caveat with the original discussion which >>>>> became a motion: "(I do not think that we can enforce such requests, = just >>>>> make them. But having an official policy about addressing them may be= good >>>>> and gives us some moral 'standing')"* >>>>> * * Moved by me, seconded by gleki.* >>>>> >>>>> *___* >>>>> >>>>> *Unofficialness Disclaimer* >>>>> >>>>> *Motion 5: "*All non-official pages or content on *.lojban.org must >>>>> contain a disclaimer stating, at least, that the website is owned and >>>>> managed by voluntary people, and that the marked contents are not >>>>> necessarily harmonized with the official design of Lojban and may not >>>>> reflect, let alone perfectly comply with, official specifications of = the >>>>> same.*"* >>>>> ** Moved by me, seconded by at least guskant and gleki.* >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> **** Here it is! **** >>>> >>>> >>>> *Motion 6: "*There shall be =E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2=80=8Bestablished= =E2=80=8B, constituted,=E2=80=8B >>>>> and organized a body=E2=80=8B - under and by the authority of the LLG= -=E2=80=8B which >>>>> will=E2=80=8B oversee,=E2=80=8B regulate=E2=80=8B, and (insofar as po= ssible) enforce=E2=80=8B the official >>>>> implementation and application of LLG policy consistent with and >>>>> pursuant to the content of the aforementioned motion proposals *(id >>>>> est: Motion 4 or Motion 5)*, provided the passage of at least one >>>>> thereof,=E2=80=8B or any similar policy of the LLG=E2=80=8B and which= shall search for >>>>> either potential violations of the same or appropriate content which = should >>>>> be so disclaimed (regardless of any implemented policy or other manda= te, >>>>> and not pertaining to only websites or entities or content subject to= the >>>>> aforementioned policies of the LLG); when it finds such content but d= oes >>>>> not have the authority to pursue such disclaimer with respect to said >>>>> content, it shall notify the LLG of the situation and its recommendat= ions >>>>> pertaining to such=E2=80=8B; =E2=80=8Bthis motion shall be inactive, = vacuous, and=E2=80=8B totally=E2=80=8B >>>>> ignored if the aforementioned motion proposals *(Motion 4, Motion 5)*= both >>>>> do not pass.=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8BAll of this body's authority shall be = inferior to and >>>>> subsumed by that of the LLG and shall be bounded by such policy of th= e LLG >>>>> and it shall not notify or attempt to regulate any entity or content = which >>>>> is not subject to or the subject of such LLG policy, although it may = search >>>>> for and review such content.=E2=80=8B It will regulate the officially= =E2=80=8B-=E2=80=8Bdesired >>>>> design, implementation, usage=E2=80=8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8Bof a= ny such notice, >>>>> protocol, or disclaimer=E2=80=8B in the stead of the LLG directly=E2= =80=8B. The body shall >>>>> consist of an odd number of members, numbering at least five. The bod= y >>>>> shall publish all of its =E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2=80=8Bdecision=E2=80=8B= =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, =E2=80=8Band work to the LLG and >>>>> will notify the pertinent websites and entities and other subjects, >>>>> according to its own discretion or explicit and direct command by the= LLG, >>>>> as to its standards and policies once such are concretely established= =E2=80=8B. >>>>> Whilst the body is constituted, the LLG=E2=80=8B shall retain total r= ight of >>>>> oversight and control over, but not necessarily responsibility for, t= he >>>>> body and any of its ouput=E2=80=8B or decisions or actions or methods= or works, as >>>>> well as any matter belonging to its domain of purpose=E2=80=8B or its= purview; the >>>>> body shall govern and organize itself and design and enforce its own >>>>> internal rules, its external standards, etc. =E2=80=8Binsofar as such= does not >>>>> conflict with the decisions of the LLG=E2=80=8B, including the conten= ts of this >>>>> motion=E2=80=8B. The body shall be composed on the earliest of=E2=80= =8B=E2=80=8B the first 1 >>>>> January or first 1 June after its first membership is chosen, after w= hich >>>>> point it shall exist for =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour =E2=80=8Bcalend= rical =E2=80=8Byears and six >>>>> =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmonths and then =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80= =8Bbe dissolved=E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B and >>>>> discontinued in its entirety, unless its lifetime is extended=E2=80= =8B and such >>>>> expiration is delayed in part or whole by explicit=E2=80=8B official = action of the >>>>> LLG; upon it=E2=80=8Bs expiration=E2=80=8B (described previously)=E2= =80=8B, all of its =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bpolicy, >>>>> standards, work, decisions, and other output shall devolve to=E2=80= =8B and become >>>>> the direct responsibility of=E2=80=8B the LLG and shall persist and r= emain active >>>>> and valid =E2=80=8Bas =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decisions, an= d other output=E2=80=8B (as >>>>> appropriate) of and in the responsibility of the LLG=E2=80=8B until t= he LLG=E2=80=8B >>>>> explicitly decides otherwise=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B or upon the e= stablishment and constitution >>>>> of another body or organization under the authority of the LLG which = has or >>>>> shall have purview which nonemptily intersects that of the body herei= n >>>>> described (in which case, all aforementioned pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolic= y, standards, >>>>> work, decisions, and other output=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherite= d by and devolved to >>>>> it unless otherwise specified by the LLG); the =E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80= =8Bmembership of the >>>>> body =E2=80=8Bherein constituted =E2=80=8Bshall be =E2=80=8Bselected = in a manner which the LLG >>>>> decides =E2=80=8Bto be appropriate, which shall be determined later= =E2=80=8B by the LLG; >>>>> thereafter, all other selection and regulation of its membership shal= l be >>>>> under the primary authority and review of the body itself, although a= ny >>>>> regular selection of new membership shall not occur prior to the elap= se of >>>>> fully two calendrical years and six calendrical months after the orig= inal >>>>> establishment of the body=E2=80=8B and selection of its first members= hip; all >>>>> membership applications and notice for such application shall be publ= ic; >>>>> eligibility requirements for membership to the body shall be subject = to >>>>> review and change by the LLG and must be explicitly established, with >>>>> explicit permission of the LLG, prior to the selection of any new >>>>> membership of the body.=E2=80=8B The name of the body herein constitu= ted shall be >>>>> determined by the LLG during or prior to, and as part of, the selecti= on of >>>>> its first membership.*=E2=80=8B"* >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Llg-members mailing list >>>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Llg-members mailing list >>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Llg-members mailing list >> Llg-members@lojban.org >> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > > --94eb2c0dcb8259804305622a3211 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2018-01-07 9:52 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks <curtis.w.franks@gma= il.com>:
= "Syntax-oriented content" is composed of things like proposals fo= r how Lojban should work, analysis of how it does work, perhaps some discus= sions or proposals concerning parsers, maybe reference guides, and stuff li= ke that. It is not poems or stories or translations - you know: like, actua= l normal reading/content. It is more 'about' than 'in' the = language.

The class of all zi&= #39;evla includes that of all fu'ivla (at least in one - the intended -= sense). It is basically the set of all brivla which are not gismu or lujvo= . (I think. I am really tired, so I may have gotten that wrong. But you sug= gested the standard alternative, so you already know what I mean. :P )


The word {zi'evl= a} is not officially documented so such explanations must be included in th= e documents to be voted upon.
But maybe it's not the right ti= me to include verbose explanations into the motion since it can theoretical= ly be disapproved.




On Jan 7, 2018 01:37, "Gleki Arxokuna" <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.= com> wrote:
<= div dir=3D"ltr">What is "syntax-oriented content"?
What is &q= uot;zi'evla"? Maybe, fu'ivla?

2018-01-07 1:46 GMT+03:00 Curtis Frank= s <curtis.w.franks@gmail.com>:
I rescind my proposal of and support for Motion 6; I 'unmove' i= t. I hereby proffer and move Motion 6 Amended 1ce, as described next:
=C2=A0"
=

****** Motion 6 Amended 1ce ******
=
A motion and charter for a body:=

___


*** S= ection 0 - Establishment and Purpose:

Clause 0:
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause A: There shall herein be =E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2= =80=8Bestablished=E2=80=8B, constituted,=E2=80=8B and organized a body=E2= =80=8B - under and by the authority of the LLG -=E2=80=8B which will=E2=80= =8B (according to its discretion) oversee,=E2=80=8B regulate=E2=80=8B, and = (insofar as possible) enforce=E2=80=8B the official implementation and appl= ication of LLG policy consistent with and pursuant to the content of whiche= ver of the following items have been passed by the LLG and are in effect: (= 1) any of aforementioned motion proposals (id est: Motion 4, Motion 5); (2)= any similar policy of the LLG which has been explicitly delegated to it.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80= =A2 Subclause B: According to its discretion, this same body additionally s= hall search for both (1) potential violations of the same policies (as in S= ection 0 Clause 0 Subclause A and in accord with Section 0 Clause 0 Subclau= se C), and (2) any content whatsoever which should be so disclaimed (regard= less of any implemented policy or other mandate, and not necessarily pertai= ning to only websites or entities or content subject to the aforementioned = policies of the LLG) and which has been identified to be appropriate for su= ch disclaimer.
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Regardless of any other provision of the L= LG or this motion (excluding Section 1 Clause 7), the primary focus of this= body shall be on: (1) official-seeming accounts, pages, or other entities = which are not clearly personal and which are not endorsed by or under the d= irect control of the LLG; (2) teaching materials concerning topics related = to the LLG; (3) syntax-oriented content which may be confused for being off= icially endorsed by the LLG, particular that which makes proposals or analy= sis concerning the structure or functionality of a language; (4) the curati= on of LLG-associated or officially endorsed websites, publications, and con= tent within its purview. Only with rare and carefully considered exception = will this body concern itself with: (1) particular works in or usages of an= y language or version thereof, particularly if they are creative or primari= ly intended to be a non-instructive or position-nonassertive texts/content = concerning the structure or functionality of a language; (2) obviously pers= onal accounts or users who do not claim official endorsement by the LLG for= the content which they publish. Section 1 Clause 4, Section 1 Clause 5, an= d Section 1 Clause 7 shall be its primary legal, moral, operational, and in= tentional constraints and shall have dominance over nearly all other concer= ns.

Clause 1: The body described in= Section 0 Clause 0 shall herein be simply known as "the Body", &= quot;this Body", or (as appropriate) "it"; (note the orthogr= aphic casing of the first two options). This motion, upon its passage and e= ntry into force, shall act as the charter for this Body and shall be active= policy of the LLG.
=
Clause 2: This = entire motion shall be inactive, vacuous, ineffective, and=E2=80=8B totally= =E2=80=8B ignored if: (1) Motion 4 and Motion 5 both do not pass prior to t= his motion or during the same meeting of the LLG as that in which this moti= on was most recently proposed; (2) there is a failure to incorporate this B= ody according to Section 3 by 12:00 (noon) UTC of 1 January A.D. 2020 or wi= thin one full calendrical year of the passage of this motion by the LLG (wh= ichever is later); or (3) a directive according to or in the pursuance of S= ection 1 Clause 4 is issued with the authorities therein described.<= /div>

___

*** Section 1= - Operation and Constraints:

Claus= e 0: This Body will autonomously regulate the officially=E2=80=8B-=E2=80=8B= desired design, implementation, usage=E2=80=8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8Bof= any such notice, protocol, or disclaimer pursuant to Section 0=E2=80=8B Cl= ause 0 in the stead of the LLG directly=E2=80=8B.=C2=A0

Clause 1: The Body shall publish all of its =E2=80=8Bd= ebate, =E2=80=8Bdecision=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, =E2= =80=8Band work to the LLG at least one per any twelve-month-long interval o= r immediately upon the request of the LLG or upon its expiration or termina= tion. It shall save and preserve all documentation of such, as a work of th= e Body, in perpetuity and in unmodified, properly maintained and connected = and organized, and complete form. The body shall proffer any documentation = to an appropriate law enforcement or legal official upon their request.

<= font face=3D"times new roman, serif">Clause 2: The Body will notify the per= tinent websites and entities and other subjects (pursuant to Section 0 Clau= se 0), according to its own discretion or according to the explicit and dir= ect command by the LLG, as to its standards and policies once such are conc= retely established=E2=80=8B. Such notification shall be only in a manner de= emed suitable by the Body and (when appropriate) the LLG directly.

Clause 3: Whilst the Body is constituted, t= he LLG=E2=80=8B shall retain total right of oversight and control over, but= not necessarily responsibility for, the Body and any of its ouput=E2=80=8B= or decisions or actions or methods or works, as well as any matter belongi= ng to its domain of purpose=E2=80=8B or its purview.

Clause 4: All of this Body's authority shall be infer= ior to, derived from, and subsumed by that of the LLG or the law and shall = be bounded by any policy or command of the LLG or the law. It shall, in goo= d faith, endeavor to totally comply with and fulfill any such policy or com= mand of LLG or the law. It shall also be subject to the following condition= s:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2= =80=A2 Condition 0: If the LLG ceases to exist, then this Body shall immedi= ately cease to exist too.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 1: If this charter becomes inoperabl= e or is totally deleted or abolished, then this Body shall immediately ceas= e to exist as if naturally expired (as in Section 1 Clause 8). If Section 0= Clause 2 applies or is satisfied, then this charter is deemed to be totall= y inoperable.
=C2=A0= =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 2: At any time and for any purpose (or none), th= e LLG or law may cause the utter and immediate termination of this Body or = may halt or direct any of its works, debates, or other processes. While und= er investigation by the law or officers thereof, this body shall continue a= nd operate such that it complies with the directives of the law or the afor= ementioned officer and reduces all other endeavors so as to maximize its ab= ility to comply therewith - and all other provisions to the contrary, inclu= ding those by or according to this charter, shall be ignored.
<= div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition = 3: The LLG (within the restrictions and permissions of the law) retains the= sole right to edit or amend, add to, remove from, or delete or abolish thi= s charter or any policy of the LLG which sustains this Body.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 4= : In all cases, the law or officers thereof shall be superior to the LLG.

Clause 5: The Body shall not notify = or attempt to in any way regulate or pressure any entity or content which i= s not subject to or the subject of such LLG policy - although it may search= for and review such content.

Claus= e 6: If and when this Body finds such content as that which is described in= Section 0 Clause 0 Subclause B but does not have the authority to pursue s= uch disclaimer with respect to said content, or if and when there is lack o= f implemented policy or mandate concerning some content, it shall - accordi= ng to its discretion - notify the LLG of the situation and its recommendati= ons pertaining to such=E2=80=8B.=E2=80=8B The Body shall take no further ac= tion regarding or relating to such content unless explicitly authorized to = do by the LLG.

<= /font>
Clause 7:
=C2=A0Main provision: Regardle= ss of other provisions of the LLG, the actions of this Body shall be minima= listic, restrained, friendly and non-aggressive, and welcoming of experimen= tation with or in - as well as welcoming of any usage or promotion of - any= version of any language which is endorsed or promoted by the LLG or which = otherwise belongs to the purview or mandate of this Body or of the LLG (col= lectively described herein as "language(s)"). It shall actively e= ncourage further innovation, exploration, usage, promotion, and creative or= technical or casual exercise of such languages in all of its external inte= ractions.
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause A: This body never shall attack, defame, insult, or = pressure (1) any users/authors of or in the relevant language(s) (or their = associated communities) nor (2) the particular personal usage of any versio= n of any language or other related work; it shall never act in a manner whi= ch stifles or discourages anyone from enjoying, exploring, using, or promot= ing any such language; it shall take especial care regarding interactions w= ith prospective or potentially new users, authors, and community members, a= s well as people or entities with whom it has little prior interaction. In = such cases, it shall at most request that the author(s): (1) sufficiently d= efine new or experimental cmavo, gismu, rafsi, zi'evla, and cmene, as w= ell as sufficiently define and indicate nonstandard definitions thereof (re= gardless of their newness or other nature) or of lujvo; (2) sufficiently id= entify and explain nonstandard grammatical structures which appear or are u= sed within the content, or sufficiently describe the version(s) of the lang= uage which they are employing therein.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause B: Any particular polic= y, decision, work, action, or other output by this body shall be explicitly= and particularly reviewed against the provisions of Section 0 and Section = 1, particular Section 1 Clause 7, and the standards thereof prior to its fi= nalization and implementation. Such review shall be conducted by the Body a= s a whole or by its leadership.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause C: When there is doubt within = the membership of the Body concerning a potential decision or course of act= ion, its primary preference shall be inaction, acceptance, and community-bu= ilding.

<= /div>

Clause 8:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause A: After its first = composition (as described in Section 2 Clause 2), this Body shall exist for= =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Byears plus six = =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmonths.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause B: Then (upon the comple= tion of Section 1 Clause 8 Subclause A), it =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80=8Bbe disa= uthorized, dissolved=E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B discontinued, and d= isincorporated in its entirety - unless its lifetime is extended=E2=80=8B a= nd such expiration is delayed in part or whole by explicit=E2=80=8B officia= l action of the LLG. This shall constitute the natural expiration of the Bo= dy.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2= =80=A2 Subclause C: Upon it=E2=80=8Bs natural expiration=E2=80=8B (as descr= ibed in Section 1 Clause 8 Subclause B)=E2=80=8B, each of its =E2=80=8B=E2= =80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bpolicies, standards, work(s), decisions, and other = output shall return to=E2=80=8B and become the direct responsibility of=E2= =80=8B the LLG and all documentation by the Body (including thereof) shall = be permanently given to the sole care of LLG; such things shall persist and= remain active and valid =E2=80=8Bas policies, standards, work(s), decision= s, and other output=E2=80=8B (as appropriate) of and in the responsibility = of the LLG=E2=80=8B until: (1) the LLG=E2=80=8B explicitly decides otherwis= e or modifies or cancels them;=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B or (2) upon the e= stablishment and constitution of another (second) body or organization unde= r the authority of the LLG which has or shall have purview which nonemptily= intersects that of the Body herein described (according to Section 0) - in= which case, all aforementioned pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work,= decisions, and other output=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherited by and de= volved to this second body or organization unless otherwise specified by th= e LLG.

Clause 9:
<= font face=3D"times new roman, serif">=C2=A0Main provision: All questions or= proposals of whether to notify an external entity or subject (as described= in Section 0 or Section 1) must be clearly and explicitly stated to the me= mbers of the Body in an organized and easy to find manner during an officia= l meeting of the Body; no external or externally-oriented action or impleme= ntation resulting from or resolving such questions or proposals, including = any notification, may be conducted or undertaken in any portion or degree, = until the elapse of four full calendrical days plus a unit of time (which i= s to be determined by the Body according to Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0)= after: (1) appropriate debate is held and concluded; (2) a clear, relevant= decision is appropriately developed and agreed to by the members (possibly= including the special determination of the aforementioned unit of time); a= nd (3) explicit and particular certification of the result regarding its co= mpliance with Section 1 Clause 7 according to the internal regulations of t= he body. The following conditions and procedures shall further apply:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Co= ndition 0 - Determination of Delay: The aforementioned unit of time which i= s to be determined by the Body for the delay of an implementation or action= based upon an externally-oriented decision shall in all cases be at least = ten full calendrical days. If no special and explicit decision concerning t= he value of this unit is made during the accompanying more-general decision= /resolution, or is made in accordance with or by internal regulations of an= d by the Body in advance, then its value shall be ten full calendrical days= .
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2= =80=A2 Condition 1 - Minimal Requirements for Decisions: Appropriate and ac= tionable agreement by the members will, in all cases, be constituted by the= explicit concent of at least a strict majority of the attending members an= d in compliance with further internal regulations made by the Body in advan= ce.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2= =80=A2 Condition 2 - Default Decision: Concerning potential external action= s or externally-oriented decisions, the default position and result of any = proposed action or question shall, unless explicitly agreed to by a strict = majority of the membership, be utter inaction (including a total lack of an= y notification or pressure, or indication thereof, of the external entity o= r subject) in anything related to the question of proposal in any manner wh= atsoever and compliance with Section 1 Clause 7. If no clear, relevant, non= -default-valued decision for a given question or proposal is appropriately = made and agreed to, then such a default result shall be perfectly obeyed by= the Body and all members thereof.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Procedure 0 - Veto: While the followi= ng procedure is underway and in effect, the aforementioned delay (defined i= n Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition = 0) shall not elapse further, instead becoming paused; upon the failure or c= ompletion of any attempt at the utilization of this procedure, such delay s= hall resume its elapsing from the state in which it was paused; completion = or fulfillment of Step 0 or Step 1 shall not pause the elapse of said delay= until both Step 0 and Step 1 are completed and fulfilled. This procedure s= hall follow the following steps (where Step 0 and Step 1 are mutually excha= ngeable):
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 0: Any non-censored member of the = Body can, for any reason whatsoever (or none), formally request that the LL= G review any non-default-valued resolution or decision of any such question= or proposal described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9; such re= quest must be submitted to the LLG in explicit fashion, and in a fashion wh= ich the members of the LLG can understand, within the delaying time interva= l described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 and in Section 1 Cl= ause 9 Condition 0. If the LLG is not currently meeting or accepting such p= etitions, then the member can instead make explicit (to the other members o= f the Body) their intentions to do so once the LLG meets and is open to acc= epting such petitions; they must fulfill this intention in a timely manner = at the next opportunity to do so, else this Procedure fails (or this Step i= s not satisfied) and the Body may proceed as if it was never invoked.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 1: Whilst such notice or intention (as described= in Step 0 of this Procedure) is made by the member, they are also to expli= citly and clearly notify the Body of the same and of their intended invocat= ion of this provision (Section 1 Clause 9 Procedure 0); they are to do so w= ithin the unit of time described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause = 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 2: = Once Step 0 and Step 1 (each of this Procedure) are fulfilled (in either or= der), this Procedure takes effect and all relevant actions of the Body are = to halt immediately and the decision described in the Main Provision of Sec= tion 1 Clause 9 which is relevant to the invocation of this Procedure shall= not be acted upon or implemented or output in any matter whatsoever until = the LLG makes a decision concerning it and all related discussions. If eith= er Step 0 or Step 1 is not satisfied within the delay interval described in= the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Conditi= on 0, then this Procedure will not be considered to be underway or in effec= t, and the Body can proceed as it was and the aforementioned time delay sha= ll continue elapsing (having never been paused); if Step 0 and Step 1 were = both satisfied within the time delay interval aforementioned, then the elap= se of said delay will immediately halt and be paused. This Step shall apply= and be obeyed even if its applicability is not recognized by the leadershi= p of the Body in a sufficiently timely manner.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 S= tep 3: Once such decision (as referenced in Step 2 of this Procedure) is ma= de by the LLG, this Procedure is completed and this Body shall immediately = and fully act accordingly and in good faith with the decision of the LLG (r= egardless of their original decision concerning the question or proposal). = If the relevant issue is never resolved by the LLG during the meeting durin= g which they are notified of the usage of this procedure, then the default = position on the question or proposal shall fully apply and this Body cannot= again entertain or take up such or related question or proposal (or other = implementation thereof), unless the new proposal be to cease some relevant = action and comply with Section 1 Clause 7, until the LLG so decides; while = this lattermost condition applies, this Procedure shall be considered to be= ongoing and in effect.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Definitions: The state of= being censored, as referenced in this provision, refers to the provisions = of Section 1 Clause 10; the default (or default state or default position) = herein referenced is that which is described in Section 1 Clause 9 Conditio= n 2.

Clause 10: The Body shall have= the power to censor its own members in a formal manner. The Body shall, in= advance, decide regulations concerning the censorship of any of their memb= ers via unanimous and explicit decision after appropriate notice to all mem= bers. Any decision to actually implement the censoring of any member must b= e made by unanimous decision of all members, excepting the subject of the p= roposed censorship, and only upon appropriate agreement by the LLG; in any = case, no state of censorship shall endure for more than one-hundred forty-f= our full calendrical days. Constraints on participation or decision making = within the Body which are to result from censorship shall only be those whi= ch accord with and result from the policy of the LLG (including this charte= r) and the explicit, prior internal regulations of the Body.

Clause 11: The Body shall immediately, during i= ts first meeting after incorporation according to Section 3, undertake to e= stablish internal rules and regulations which satisfy and enable the provis= ions of this section (id est: Section 1).

___


*** Section 2 - Composition:

Clause 0 - Membership:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause A: The Bo= dy shall consist of an odd number of members, numbering at least five, who = shall be members of the community or people acceptable to the Body and the = LLG and who accept their membership to the Body.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause B: The =E2=80= =8Bfirst =E2=80=8Bmembership of the Body shall be =E2=80=8Bselected in a ma= nner which the LLG decides =E2=80=8Bto be appropriate, which shall be deter= mined later=E2=80=8B by the LLG.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Thereafter, all other (lat= er) selections and (internal) regulations of its membership shall be under = the primary, autonomous, and direct authority and review of the Body itself= , subject to the following conditions:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Condition = 0: Any regular/normal selection of new membership shall not occur prior to = the elapse of fully two calendrical years plus six calendrical months after= both the original establishment of this Body and the incorporation of this= Body according to Section 3.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Condition 1: Any ch= ange to such selection or regulation shall become effective only upon due n= otice to all members and the elapse of fourteen full calendrical days after= its passage, excepting the case of an emergency as determined by an at-lea= st-two-thirds supermajority of the attending members.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause D: All m= embership applications to the Body and notice for such application shall be= entirely public.
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause E: All eligibility requirements for member= ship to the Body shall be entirely subject to review and change by the LLG = and must be explicitly established, with the explicit permission of the LLG= , prior to the selection of any new membership of the Body. This and other = basic internal regulations shall be the first business to be determined by = the Body during its first official meeting according to Section 2 Clause 2.=

Clause 1 - Organization: The Body = shall govern and organize itself - and design and enforce its own internal = rules, its external standards, etc. - =E2=80=8Bautonomously insofar as such= does not conflict with the decisions of the LLG=E2=80=8B, including the co= ntents of this motion=E2=80=8B. Such basic internal regulations shall be th= e first business to be determined by the Body during its first official mee= ting according to Section 2 Clause 2.

Clause 2 - Event of Composition and First Meeting: This Body shall be fi= rst composed on the earliest instance of 12:00 (noon) UTC of 1 January or 1= June which is at least thirty-six mutually emptily-intersecting, twenty-fo= ur-hour-long intervals after its incorporation (as described in Section 3).= It shall then officially meet for the first time, at a time and manner acc= ording to the wishes of all of its members. Its first business shall be to = determine its basic internal rules and regulations pursuant to each provisi= on of this charter.
=
___


*** Section 3 - Incorporation:

Clause 0: This body shall be incorporated upon and only upon the = completion and simultaneous fulfillment of each of the following conditions= :
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2= =80=A2 Condition 0: The first membership of this Body having been properly = selected, satisfying Section 2 Clause 0 with regard to people who have capa= city and willingness to maintain and realize active membership in the Body.=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80= =A2 Condition 1: A general name for this Body is determined by the LLG in a= n official act thereof.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 2: Upon review of the purported satisf= action of all other conditions of Section 3 Clause 0 by the LLG, event of a= n explicit declaration and granting of incorporation of and to the Body by = the LLG occurs.=C2=A0
=C2=A0",=

where:
=C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Any reference to Motion 4 and M= otion 5 shall be understood to refer to the same motions as those so labell= ed in this current email chain or any modification, successor, continuance,= or replacement of the same.

On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Creative Care Se= rvices <comcaresvcs@gmail.com> wrote:
In addition to the two other proposals regarding=C2=A0 u= nofficial content, included below because this one refers to them, Curtis p= ointed out that he had made three rather than two on this topic. The one we= are considering here is listed below as number six.

Thi= s motion is now waiting to see if anyone chooses to second it.=C2=A0
<= div>
.karis.=C2=A0


Concerning Unofficial Social Media Presences
=

Motion 4: "The LLG sha= ll adopt an official policy that the LLG or some body constituted by it for= such purpose shall search for and monitor social media or blog platforms, = accounts, pages, profiles, groups, communities, bots, etc. (hereafter calle= d "entities") which in any way whatsoever relate to, promote, or = use Lojban or other LLG-adopted logical languages and which are not clearly= human, personal, non-promoting, or unofficial - and that such a body shall= request such entities to prominently display a disclaimer stating that the= y are unofficial and not endorsed by the LLG."
=C2=A0* I noted the followin= g caveat with the original discussion which became a motion: "(I do no= t think that we can enforce such requests, just make them. But having an of= ficial policy about addressing them may be good and gives us some moral = 9;standing')"
=C2=A0* Moved by me, seconded by gleki.

___

Unofficialness Disclaimer<= /font>

Motion 5: "All n= on-official pages or content on *.lojban.org=C2=A0must contain a disclaimer stating, at least, th= at the website is owned and managed by voluntary people, and that the marke= d contents are not necessarily harmonized with the official design of Lojba= n and may not reflect, let alone perfectly comply with, official specificat= ions of the same."
* Moved by me, seconded by at least guskant and gleki.


=
=C2=A0**** Here it is! ****


Motion 6: "There shall be =E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2=80=8Bestablished=E2=80=8B, con= stituted,=E2=80=8B and organized a body=E2=80=8B - under and by the authori= ty of the LLG -=E2=80=8B which will=E2=80=8B oversee,=E2=80=8B regulate=E2= =80=8B, and (insofar as possible) enforce=E2=80=8B the official implementat= ion and application of LLG policy consistent with and pursuant=C2=A0to the = content of the aforementioned motion proposals=C2=A0(id est= : Motion 4 or Motion 5), provided the passage of at least o= ne thereof,=E2=80=8B or any similar policy of the LLG=E2=80=8B and which sh= all search for either potential violations of the same or appropriate conte= nt which should be so disclaimed (regardless of any implemented policy or o= ther mandate, and not pertaining to only websites or entities or content su= bject to the aforementioned policies of the LLG); when it finds such conten= t but does not have the authority to pursue such disclaimer with respect to= said content, it shall notify the LLG of the situation and its recommendat= ions pertaining to such=E2=80=8B; =E2=80=8Bthis motion shall be inactive, v= acuous, and=E2=80=8B totally=E2=80=8B ignored if the aforementioned motion = proposals=C2=A0(Motion 4, Motion 5)=C2=A0bo= th do not pass.=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8BAll of this body's authority shall be= inferior to and subsumed by that of the LLG and shall be bounded by such p= olicy of the LLG and it shall not notify or attempt to regulate any entity = or content which is not subject to or the subject of such LLG policy, altho= ugh it may search for and review such content.=E2=80=8B It will regulate th= e officially=E2=80=8B-=E2=80=8Bdesired design, implementation, usage=E2=80= =8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8Bof any such notice, protocol, or disclaimer= =E2=80=8B in the stead of the LLG directly=E2=80=8B. The body shall consist= of an odd number of members, numbering at least five. The body shall publi= sh all of its =E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2=80=8Bdecision=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B= =E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, =E2=80=8Band work to the LLG and will notify the perti= nent websites and entities and other subjects, according to its own discret= ion or explicit and direct command by the LLG, as to its standards and poli= cies once such are concretely established=E2=80=8B. Whilst the body is cons= tituted, the LLG=E2=80=8B shall retain total right of oversight and control= over, but not necessarily responsibility for, the body and any of its oupu= t=E2=80=8B or decisions or actions or methods or works, as well as any matt= er belonging to its domain of purpose=E2=80=8B or its purview; the body sha= ll govern and organize itself and design and enforce its own internal rules= , its external standards, etc. =E2=80=8Binsofar as such does not conflict w= ith the decisions of the LLG=E2=80=8B, including the contents of this motio= n=E2=80=8B. The body shall be composed on the earliest of=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B= the first 1 January or first 1 June after its first membership is chosen, = after which point it shall exist for =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour =E2=80=8B= calendrical =E2=80=8Byears and six =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmonths and= then =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80=8Bbe dissolved=E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80= =8B and discontinued in its entirety, unless its lifetime is extended=E2=80= =8B and such expiration is delayed in part or whole by explicit=E2=80=8B of= ficial action of the LLG; upon it=E2=80=8Bs expiration=E2=80=8B (described = previously)=E2=80=8B, all of its =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bpolicy= , standards, work, decisions, and other output shall devolve to=E2=80=8B an= d become the direct responsibility of=E2=80=8B the LLG and shall persist an= d remain active and valid =E2=80=8Bas =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, dec= isions, and other output=E2=80=8B (as appropriate) of and in the responsibi= lity of the LLG=E2=80=8B until the LLG=E2=80=8B explicitly decides otherwis= e=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B or upon the establishment and constitution of = another body or organization under the authority of the LLG which has or sh= all have purview which nonemptily intersects that of the body herein descri= bed (in which case, all aforementioned pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards= , work, decisions, and other output=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherited by= and devolved to it unless otherwise specified by the LLG); the =E2=80=8Bfi= rst =E2=80=8Bmembership of the body =E2=80=8Bherein constituted =E2=80=8Bsh= all be =E2=80=8Bselected in a manner which the LLG decides =E2=80=8Bto be a= ppropriate, which shall be determined later=E2=80=8B by the LLG; thereafter= , all other selection and regulation of its membership shall be under the p= rimary authority and review of the body itself, although any regular select= ion of new membership shall not occur prior to the elapse of fully two cale= ndrical years and six calendrical months after the original establishment o= f the body=E2=80=8B and selection of its first membership; all membership a= pplications and notice for such application shall be public; eligibility=C2= =A0requirements for membership to the body shall be subject to review and c= hange by the LLG and must be explicitly established, with explicit permissi= on of the LLG, prior to the selection of any new membership of the body.=E2= =80=8B The name of the body herein constituted shall be determined by the L= LG during or prior to, and as part of, the selection of its first membershi= p.=E2=80=8B"
=
_______________________________________________<= br> Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members



_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members



_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members


_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members


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