Received: from localhost ([::1]:42936 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eY51R-0000Hi-Iu; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 23:05:33 -0800 Received: from mail-yb0-f178.google.com ([209.85.213.178]:33749) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eY50s-0000Fh-SD for llg-members@lojban.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 23:05:01 -0800 Received: by mail-yb0-f178.google.com with SMTP id f16so3400521ybn.0 for ; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 23:04:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=H5lf8bgjWGPGQ8tAkBdX5JXvnqy6IVfilzDDdLvtruM=; b=W+2fx/sFdGRbVNj5z1uhzE2A2qBYXCGrbvPruR0lRlIMRwAbiNdAEY+FJam2uXlp3k KNdaCGVjhZjE2Dxfdd+ftsFulo49RFDgd+rK6yGjmPRak7IdGBmTm4e57Oh2HKTvbdXw QUN/WXqEUefSYQ/i3f8k+PUCFpBMLIvb4hcrHj2f5EsRHP6Ey3+DfX0ljH/VR2aGTWv7 crQvtOjnK3XVFuZkb4L7EAXYmUGxJ/3SRZ3BvzVnRNzRHHbv1YDqUCq/dnfCJQ4w9HfP y9A0RNBqB5KJGJ9cqvC28mXGrJKvQsoUt+TOZJ/JNiU5QPrQHQu9ITZnvLmeicFMuyII srpw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=H5lf8bgjWGPGQ8tAkBdX5JXvnqy6IVfilzDDdLvtruM=; b=BdeWfK4oJA0aA+KGf9Xd5EWs8q+J2z+MHQncOIPIxXGJhTq0ofQdboUWDH4ZcXV6nT s0YMVUrv1MWZm7LQx17ob95juaxOGxT0zQe6r4xzgBu3wh2KFu0VYq/CjNFNdajX6EMb b6FUChdOAipYqfBGBhrPTdy/xwY3q6ievKjnjayWhjHu+yhVEKW5ZtiLq/200tsyUA2S 1IqeZkgIw5YScVDq+DHGQsVRwJdzrcqqHX8Jbes6m57eUFLN2wR5WRhWMRUGvNg1arD7 xPVUz+tcSRO3BCZy/3N/X2sVjN8l4R6E12X/rgvRq3Uq13Wln7NJRf7pt1/lzvzELqvD hxMw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJzb6EsIoNIhOos2CvUixZmtN5aGmXjSbihmjqlalJpaQ2UkwIE vf9gjGL6+q6XPBh6RH08uUqB/UIB+cUA01De9os= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBou8IW475R1siQZLX52AH2VUVSil1l16gekzERn22g7XpEhVPUc5hlyX5xgpKdHXtywapTqJcMhKppdukhPxjqc= X-Received: by 10.37.188.146 with SMTP id e18mr1181969ybk.371.1515308692125; Sat, 06 Jan 2018 23:04:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.199.2 with HTTP; Sat, 6 Jan 2018 23:04:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.37.199.2 with HTTP; Sat, 6 Jan 2018 23:04:51 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Curtis Franks Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 02:04:51 -0500 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -1.5 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.5 X-Spam_score_int: -14 X-Spam_bar: - Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Proposal : Investigation of Unofficialness X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3405718266868769025==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============3405718266868769025== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e0826762051bd8205622a4c6a" --089e0826762051bd8205622a4c6a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh, I see. Fair enough. We can add that explanation/definition into it/our considerations of it now, since it has not yet been seconded. Slight addendum to the motion: A second and third bullet point entry under "where" (which defines terms and conditions applying in a meta way to the motion proper) shall explain the meanings of the terms about which gleki asked according to, roughly, what I just said in response (we can hammer out the details if necessary, but I think that we are good). On Jan 7, 2018 01:58, "Gleki Arxokuna" wrote: > > > 2018-01-07 9:52 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks : > >> "Syntax-oriented content" is composed of things like proposals for how >> Lojban should work, analysis of how it does work, perhaps some discussio= ns >> or proposals concerning parsers, maybe reference guides, and stuff like >> that. It is not poems or stories or translations - you know: like, actua= l >> normal reading/content. It is more 'about' than 'in' the language. >> >> The class of all zi'evla includes that of all fu'ivla (at least in one - >> the intended - sense). It is basically the set of all brivla which are n= ot >> gismu or lujvo. (I think. I am really tired, so I may have gotten that >> wrong. But you suggested the standard alternative, so you already know w= hat >> I mean. :P ) >> > > > The word {zi'evla} is not officially documented so such explanations must > be included in the documents to be voted upon. > But maybe it's not the right time to include verbose explanations into th= e > motion since it can theoretically be disapproved. > > > >> >> On Jan 7, 2018 01:37, "Gleki Arxokuna" >> wrote: >> >>> What is "syntax-oriented content"? >>> What is "zi'evla"? Maybe, fu'ivla? >>> >>> 2018-01-07 1:46 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks : >>> >>>> I rescind my proposal of and support for Motion 6; I 'unmove' it. I >>>> hereby proffer and move Motion 6 Amended 1ce, as described next: >>>> " >>>> >>>> ****** Motion 6 Amended 1ce ****** >>>> A motion and charter for a body: >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> >>>> >>>> *** Section 0 - Establishment and Purpose: >>>> >>>> Clause 0: >>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause A: There shall herein be =E2=80=8Bauthorized, = =E2=80=8Bestablished=E2=80=8B, >>>> constituted,=E2=80=8B and organized a body=E2=80=8B - under and by the= authority of the LLG >>>> -=E2=80=8B which will=E2=80=8B (according to its discretion) oversee,= =E2=80=8B regulate=E2=80=8B, and >>>> (insofar as possible) enforce=E2=80=8B the official implementation and= application >>>> of LLG policy consistent with and pursuant to the content of whichever= of >>>> the following items have been passed by the LLG and are in effect: (1)= any >>>> of aforementioned motion proposals (id est: Motion 4, Motion 5); (2) a= ny >>>> similar policy of the LLG which has been explicitly delegated to it. >>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause B: According to its discretion, this same body >>>> additionally shall search for both (1) potential violations of the sam= e >>>> policies (as in Section 0 Clause 0 Subclause A and in accord with Sect= ion 0 >>>> Clause 0 Subclause C), and (2) any content whatsoever which should be = so >>>> disclaimed (regardless of any implemented policy or other mandate, and= not >>>> necessarily pertaining to only websites or entities or content subject= to >>>> the aforementioned policies of the LLG) and which has been identified = to be >>>> appropriate for such disclaimer. >>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Regardless of any other provision of the LLG= or this >>>> motion (excluding Section 1 Clause 7), the primary focus of this body = shall >>>> be on: (1) official-seeming accounts, pages, or other entities which a= re >>>> not clearly personal and which are not endorsed by or under the direct >>>> control of the LLG; (2) teaching materials concerning topics related t= o the >>>> LLG; (3) syntax-oriented content which may be confused for being offic= ially >>>> endorsed by the LLG, particular that which makes proposals or analysis >>>> concerning the structure or functionality of a language; (4) the curat= ion >>>> of LLG-associated or officially endorsed websites, publications, and >>>> content within its purview. Only with rare and carefully considered >>>> exception will this body concern itself with: (1) particular works in = or >>>> usages of any language or version thereof, particularly if they are >>>> creative or primarily intended to be a non-instructive or >>>> position-nonassertive texts/content concerning the structure or >>>> functionality of a language; (2) obviously personal accounts or users = who >>>> do not claim official endorsement by the LLG for the content which the= y >>>> publish. Section 1 Clause 4, Section 1 Clause 5, and Section 1 Clause = 7 >>>> shall be its primary legal, moral, operational, and intentional constr= aints >>>> and shall have dominance over nearly all other concerns. >>>> >>>> Clause 1: The body described in Section 0 Clause 0 shall herein be >>>> simply known as "the Body", "this Body", or (as appropriate) "it"; (no= te >>>> the orthographic casing of the first two options). This motion, upon i= ts >>>> passage and entry into force, shall act as the charter for this Body a= nd >>>> shall be active policy of the LLG. >>>> >>>> Clause 2: This entire motion shall be inactive, vacuous, ineffective, >>>> and=E2=80=8B totally=E2=80=8B ignored if: (1) Motion 4 and Motion 5 bo= th do not pass prior >>>> to this motion or during the same meeting of the LLG as that in which = this >>>> motion was most recently proposed; (2) there is a failure to incorpora= te >>>> this Body according to Section 3 by 12:00 (noon) UTC of 1 January A.D.= 2020 >>>> or within one full calendrical year of the passage of this motion by t= he >>>> LLG (whichever is later); or (3) a directive according to or in the >>>> pursuance of Section 1 Clause 4 is issued with the authorities therein >>>> described. >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> >>>> >>>> *** Section 1 - Operation and Constraints: >>>> >>>> Clause 0: This Body will autonomously regulate the officially=E2=80=8B= -=E2=80=8Bdesired >>>> design, implementation, usage=E2=80=8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8Bof an= y such notice, >>>> protocol, or disclaimer pursuant to Section 0=E2=80=8B Clause 0 in the= stead of the >>>> LLG directly=E2=80=8B. >>>> >>>> Clause 1: The Body shall publish all of its =E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2=80=8B= decision=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, >>>> =E2=80=8Band work to the LLG at least one per any twelve-month-long in= terval or >>>> immediately upon the request of the LLG or upon its expiration or >>>> termination. It shall save and preserve all documentation of such, as = a >>>> work of the Body, in perpetuity and in unmodified, properly maintained= and >>>> connected and organized, and complete form. The body shall proffer any >>>> documentation to an appropriate law enforcement or legal official upon >>>> their request. >>>> >>>> Clause 2: The Body will notify the pertinent websites and entities and >>>> other subjects (pursuant to Section 0 Clause 0), according to its own >>>> discretion or according to the explicit and direct command by the LLG,= as >>>> to its standards and policies once such are concretely established=E2= =80=8B. Such >>>> notification shall be only in a manner deemed suitable by the Body and >>>> (when appropriate) the LLG directly. >>>> >>>> Clause 3: Whilst the Body is constituted, the LLG=E2=80=8B shall retai= n total >>>> right of oversight and control over, but not necessarily responsibilit= y >>>> for, the Body and any of its ouput=E2=80=8B or decisions or actions or= methods or >>>> works, as well as any matter belonging to its domain of purpose=E2=80= =8B or its >>>> purview. >>>> >>>> Clause 4: All of this Body's authority shall be inferior to, derived >>>> from, and subsumed by that of the LLG or the law and shall be bounded = by >>>> any policy or command of the LLG or the law. It shall, in good faith, >>>> endeavor to totally comply with and fulfill any such policy or command= of >>>> LLG or the law. It shall also be subject to the following conditions: >>>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 0: If the LLG ceases to exist, then this Body s= hall >>>> immediately cease to exist too. >>>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 1: If this charter becomes inoperable or is tot= ally >>>> deleted or abolished, then this Body shall immediately cease to exist = as if >>>> naturally expired (as in Section 1 Clause 8). If Section 0 Clause 2 ap= plies >>>> or is satisfied, then this charter is deemed to be totally inoperable. >>>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 2: At any time and for any purpose (or none), t= he LLG or >>>> law may cause the utter and immediate termination of this Body or may = halt >>>> or direct any of its works, debates, or other processes. While under >>>> investigation by the law or officers thereof, this body shall continue= and >>>> operate such that it complies with the directives of the law or the >>>> aforementioned officer and reduces all other endeavors so as to maximi= ze >>>> its ability to comply therewith - and all other provisions to the cont= rary, >>>> including those by or according to this charter, shall be ignored. >>>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 3: The LLG (within the restrictions and permiss= ions of >>>> the law) retains the sole right to edit or amend, add to, remove from,= or >>>> delete or abolish this charter or any policy of the LLG which sustains= this >>>> Body. >>>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 4: In all cases, the law or officers thereof sh= all be >>>> superior to the LLG. >>>> >>>> Clause 5: The Body shall not notify or attempt to in any way regulate >>>> or pressure any entity or content which is not subject to or the subje= ct of >>>> such LLG policy - although it may search for and review such content. >>>> >>>> Clause 6: If and when this Body finds such content as that which is >>>> described in Section 0 Clause 0 Subclause B but does not have the auth= ority >>>> to pursue such disclaimer with respect to said content, or if and when >>>> there is lack of implemented policy or mandate concerning some content= , it >>>> shall - according to its discretion - notify the LLG of the situation = and >>>> its recommendations pertaining to such=E2=80=8B.=E2=80=8B The Body sha= ll take no further >>>> action regarding or relating to such content unless explicitly authori= zed >>>> to do by the LLG. >>>> >>>> Clause 7: >>>> Main provision: Regardless of other provisions of the LLG, the action= s >>>> of this Body shall be minimalistic, restrained, friendly and >>>> non-aggressive, and welcoming of experimentation with or in - as well = as >>>> welcoming of any usage or promotion of - any version of any language w= hich >>>> is endorsed or promoted by the LLG or which otherwise belongs to the >>>> purview or mandate of this Body or of the LLG (collectively described >>>> herein as "language(s)"). It shall actively encourage further innovati= on, >>>> exploration, usage, promotion, and creative or technical or casual exe= rcise >>>> of such languages in all of its external interactions. >>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause A: This body never shall attack, defame, insult= , or >>>> pressure (1) any users/authors of or in the relevant language(s) (or t= heir >>>> associated communities) nor (2) the particular personal usage of any >>>> version of any language or other related work; it shall never act in a >>>> manner which stifles or discourages anyone from enjoying, exploring, u= sing, >>>> or promoting any such language; it shall take especial care regarding >>>> interactions with prospective or potentially new users, authors, and >>>> community members, as well as people or entities with whom it has litt= le >>>> prior interaction. In such cases, it shall at most request that the >>>> author(s): (1) sufficiently define new or experimental cmavo, gismu, r= afsi, >>>> zi'evla, and cmene, as well as sufficiently define and indicate nonsta= ndard >>>> definitions thereof (regardless of their newness or other nature) or o= f >>>> lujvo; (2) sufficiently identify and explain nonstandard grammatical >>>> structures which appear or are used within the content, or sufficientl= y >>>> describe the version(s) of the language which they are employing there= in. >>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause B: Any particular policy, decision, work, actio= n, or >>>> other output by this body shall be explicitly and particularly reviewe= d >>>> against the provisions of Section 0 and Section 1, particular Section = 1 >>>> Clause 7, and the standards thereof prior to its finalization and >>>> implementation. Such review shall be conducted by the Body as a whole = or by >>>> its leadership. >>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: When there is doubt within the membership of= the Body >>>> concerning a potential decision or course of action, its primary prefe= rence >>>> shall be inaction, acceptance, and community-building. >>>> >>>> >>>> Clause 8: >>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause A: After its first composition (as described in= Section >>>> 2 Clause 2), this Body shall exist for =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour = =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Byears >>>> plus six =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmonths. >>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause B: Then (upon the completion of Section 1 Claus= e 8 >>>> Subclause A), it =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80=8Bbe disauthorized, dissolved= =E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B >>>> discontinued, and disincorporated in its entirety - unless its lifetim= e is >>>> extended=E2=80=8B and such expiration is delayed in part or whole by e= xplicit=E2=80=8B >>>> official action of the LLG. This shall constitute the natural expirati= on of >>>> the Body. >>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Upon it=E2=80=8Bs natural expiration=E2=80= =8B (as described in >>>> Section 1 Clause 8 Subclause B)=E2=80=8B, each of its =E2=80=8B=E2=80= =8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bpolicies, standards, >>>> work(s), decisions, and other output shall return to=E2=80=8B and beco= me the direct >>>> responsibility of=E2=80=8B the LLG and all documentation by the Body (= including >>>> thereof) shall be permanently given to the sole care of LLG; such thin= gs >>>> shall persist and remain active and valid =E2=80=8Bas policies, standa= rds, work(s), >>>> decisions, and other output=E2=80=8B (as appropriate) of and in the re= sponsibility >>>> of the LLG=E2=80=8B until: (1) the LLG=E2=80=8B explicitly decides oth= erwise or modifies or >>>> cancels them;=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B or (2) upon the establishment= and constitution of another >>>> (second) body or organization under the authority of the LLG which has= or >>>> shall have purview which nonemptily intersects that of the Body herein >>>> described (according to Section 0) - in which case, all aforementioned >>>> pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decisions, and other outpu= t=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be >>>> inherited by and devolved to this second body or organization unless >>>> otherwise specified by the LLG. >>>> >>>> Clause 9: >>>> Main provision: All questions or proposals of whether to notify an >>>> external entity or subject (as described in Section 0 or Section 1) mu= st be >>>> clearly and explicitly stated to the members of the Body in an organiz= ed >>>> and easy to find manner during an official meeting of the Body; no ext= ernal >>>> or externally-oriented action or implementation resulting from or reso= lving >>>> such questions or proposals, including any notification, may be conduc= ted >>>> or undertaken in any portion or degree, until the elapse of four full >>>> calendrical days plus a unit of time (which is to be determined by the= Body >>>> according to Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0) after: (1) appropriate de= bate >>>> is held and concluded; (2) a clear, relevant decision is appropriately >>>> developed and agreed to by the members (possibly including the special >>>> determination of the aforementioned unit of time); and (3) explicit an= d >>>> particular certification of the result regarding its compliance with >>>> Section 1 Clause 7 according to the internal regulations of the body. = The >>>> following conditions and procedures shall further apply: >>>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 0 - Determination of Delay: The aforementioned = unit of >>>> time which is to be determined by the Body for the delay of an >>>> implementation or action based upon an externally-oriented decision sh= all >>>> in all cases be at least ten full calendrical days. If no special and >>>> explicit decision concerning the value of this unit is made during the >>>> accompanying more-general decision/resolution, or is made in accordanc= e >>>> with or by internal regulations of and by the Body in advance, then it= s >>>> value shall be ten full calendrical days. >>>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 1 - Minimal Requirements for Decisions: Appropr= iate and >>>> actionable agreement by the members will, in all cases, be constituted= by >>>> the explicit concent of at least a strict majority of the attending me= mbers >>>> and in compliance with further internal regulations made by the Body i= n >>>> advance. >>>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 2 - Default Decision: Concerning potential exte= rnal >>>> actions or externally-oriented decisions, the default position and res= ult >>>> of any proposed action or question shall, unless explicitly agreed to = by a >>>> strict majority of the membership, be utter inaction (including a tota= l >>>> lack of any notification or pressure, or indication thereof, of the >>>> external entity or subject) in anything related to the question of pro= posal >>>> in any manner whatsoever and compliance with Section 1 Clause 7. If no >>>> clear, relevant, non-default-valued decision for a given question or >>>> proposal is appropriately made and agreed to, then such a default resu= lt >>>> shall be perfectly obeyed by the Body and all members thereof. >>>> =E2=80=A2 Procedure 0 - Veto: While the following procedure is unde= rway and >>>> in effect, the aforementioned delay (defined in Main Provision of Sect= ion 1 >>>> Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0) shall not elapse furth= er, >>>> instead becoming paused; upon the failure or completion of any attempt= at >>>> the utilization of this procedure, such delay shall resume its elapsin= g >>>> from the state in which it was paused; completion or fulfillment of St= ep 0 >>>> or Step 1 shall not pause the elapse of said delay until both Step 0 a= nd >>>> Step 1 are completed and fulfilled. This procedure shall follow the >>>> following steps (where Step 0 and Step 1 are mutually exchangeable): >>>> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 0: Any non-censored member of the Body = can, for any >>>> reason whatsoever (or none), formally request that the LLG review any >>>> non-default-valued resolution or decision of any such question or prop= osal >>>> described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9; such request mu= st be >>>> submitted to the LLG in explicit fashion, and in a fashion which the >>>> members of the LLG can understand, within the delaying time interval >>>> described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 and in Section 1 >>>> Clause 9 Condition 0. If the LLG is not currently meeting or accepting= such >>>> petitions, then the member can instead make explicit (to the other mem= bers >>>> of the Body) their intentions to do so once the LLG meets and is open = to >>>> accepting such petitions; they must fulfill this intention in a timely >>>> manner at the next opportunity to do so, else this Procedure fails (or= this >>>> Step is not satisfied) and the Body may proceed as if it was never inv= oked. >>>> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 1: Whilst such notice or intention (as = described in Step >>>> 0 of this Procedure) is made by the member, they are also to explicitl= y and >>>> clearly notify the Body of the same and of their intended invocation o= f >>>> this provision (Section 1 Clause 9 Procedure 0); they are to do so wit= hin >>>> the unit of time described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9= and >>>> in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0. >>>> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 2: Once Step 0 and Step 1 (each of this= Procedure) are >>>> fulfilled (in either order), this Procedure takes effect and all relev= ant >>>> actions of the Body are to halt immediately and the decision described= in >>>> the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 which is relevant to the >>>> invocation of this Procedure shall not be acted upon or implemented or >>>> output in any matter whatsoever until the LLG makes a decision concern= ing >>>> it and all related discussions. If either Step 0 or Step 1 is not sati= sfied >>>> within the delay interval described in the Main Provision of Section 1 >>>> Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0, then this Procedure wi= ll >>>> not be considered to be underway or in effect, and the Body can procee= d as >>>> it was and the aforementioned time delay shall continue elapsing (havi= ng >>>> never been paused); if Step 0 and Step 1 were both satisfied within th= e >>>> time delay interval aforementioned, then the elapse of said delay will >>>> immediately halt and be paused. This Step shall apply and be obeyed ev= en if >>>> its applicability is not recognized by the leadership of the Body in a >>>> sufficiently timely manner. >>>> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 3: Once such decision (as referenced in= Step 2 of this >>>> Procedure) is made by the LLG, this Procedure is completed and this Bo= dy >>>> shall immediately and fully act accordingly and in good faith with the >>>> decision of the LLG (regardless of their original decision concerning = the >>>> question or proposal). If the relevant issue is never resolved by the = LLG >>>> during the meeting during which they are notified of the usage of this >>>> procedure, then the default position on the question or proposal shall >>>> fully apply and this Body cannot again entertain or take up such or re= lated >>>> question or proposal (or other implementation thereof), unless the new >>>> proposal be to cease some relevant action and comply with Section 1 Cl= ause >>>> 7, until the LLG so decides; while this lattermost condition applies, = this >>>> Procedure shall be considered to be ongoing and in effect. >>>> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Definitions: The state of being censored, as= referenced in >>>> this provision, refers to the provisions of Section 1 Clause 10; the >>>> default (or default state or default position) herein referenced is th= at >>>> which is described in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 2. >>>> >>>> Clause 10: The Body shall have the power to censor its own members in = a >>>> formal manner. The Body shall, in advance, decide regulations concerni= ng >>>> the censorship of any of their members via unanimous and explicit deci= sion >>>> after appropriate notice to all members. Any decision to actually impl= ement >>>> the censoring of any member must be made by unanimous decision of all >>>> members, excepting the subject of the proposed censorship, and only up= on >>>> appropriate agreement by the LLG; in any case, no state of censorship = shall >>>> endure for more than one-hundred forty-four full calendrical days. >>>> Constraints on participation or decision making within the Body which = are >>>> to result from censorship shall only be those which accord with and re= sult >>>> from the policy of the LLG (including this charter) and the explicit, = prior >>>> internal regulations of the Body. >>>> >>>> Clause 11: The Body shall immediately, during its first meeting after >>>> incorporation according to Section 3, undertake to establish internal = rules >>>> and regulations which satisfy and enable the provisions of this sectio= n (id >>>> est: Section 1). >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> >>>> >>>> *** Section 2 - Composition: >>>> >>>> Clause 0 - Membership: >>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause A: The Body shall consist of an odd number of m= embers, >>>> numbering at least five, who shall be members of the community or peop= le >>>> acceptable to the Body and the LLG and who accept their membership to = the >>>> Body. >>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause B: The =E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80=8Bmembership of th= e Body shall be =E2=80=8Bselected >>>> in a manner which the LLG decides =E2=80=8Bto be appropriate, which sh= all be >>>> determined later=E2=80=8B by the LLG. >>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Thereafter, all other (later) selections and >>>> (internal) regulations of its membership shall be under the primary, >>>> autonomous, and direct authority and review of the Body itself, subjec= t to >>>> the following conditions: >>>> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Condition 0: Any regular/normal selection of= new membership >>>> shall not occur prior to the elapse of fully two calendrical years plu= s six >>>> calendrical months after both the original establishment of this Body = and >>>> the incorporation of this Body according to Section 3. >>>> =E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Condition 1: Any change to such selection or= regulation shall >>>> become effective only upon due notice to all members and the elapse of >>>> fourteen full calendrical days after its passage, excepting the case o= f an >>>> emergency as determined by an at-least-two-thirds supermajority of the >>>> attending members. >>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause D: All membership applications to the Body and = notice >>>> for such application shall be entirely public. >>>> =E2=80=A2 Subclause E: All eligibility requirements for membership = to the >>>> Body shall be entirely subject to review and change by the LLG and mus= t be >>>> explicitly established, with the explicit permission of the LLG, prior= to >>>> the selection of any new membership of the Body. This and other basic >>>> internal regulations shall be the first business to be determined by t= he >>>> Body during its first official meeting according to Section 2 Clause 2= . >>>> >>>> Clause 1 - Organization: The Body shall govern and organize itself - >>>> and design and enforce its own internal rules, its external standards,= etc. >>>> - =E2=80=8Bautonomously insofar as such does not conflict with the dec= isions of the >>>> LLG=E2=80=8B, including the contents of this motion=E2=80=8B. Such bas= ic internal >>>> regulations shall be the first business to be determined by the Body d= uring >>>> its first official meeting according to Section 2 Clause 2. >>>> >>>> Clause 2 - Event of Composition and First Meeting: This Body shall be >>>> first composed on the earliest instance of 12:00 (noon) UTC of 1 Janua= ry or >>>> 1 June which is at least thirty-six mutually emptily-intersecting, >>>> twenty-four-hour-long intervals after its incorporation (as described = in >>>> Section 3). It shall then officially meet for the first time, at a tim= e and >>>> manner according to the wishes of all of its members. Its first busine= ss >>>> shall be to determine its basic internal rules and regulations pursuan= t to >>>> each provision of this charter. >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> >>>> >>>> *** Section 3 - Incorporation: >>>> >>>> Clause 0: This body shall be incorporated upon and only upon the >>>> completion and simultaneous fulfillment of each of the following condi= tions: >>>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 0: The first membership of this Body having bee= n >>>> properly selected, satisfying Section 2 Clause 0 with regard to people= who >>>> have capacity and willingness to maintain and realize active membershi= p in >>>> the Body. >>>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 1: A general name for this Body is determined b= y the LLG >>>> in an official act thereof. >>>> =E2=80=A2 Condition 2: Upon review of the purported satisfaction of= all >>>> other conditions of Section 3 Clause 0 by the LLG, event of an explici= t >>>> declaration and granting of incorporation of and to the Body by the LL= G >>>> occurs. >>>> >>>> ", >>>> >>>> where: >>>> =E2=80=A2 Any reference to Motion 4 and Motion 5 shall be understood = to refer >>>> to the same motions as those so labelled in this current email chain o= r any >>>> modification, successor, continuance, or replacement of the same. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Creative Care Services < >>>> comcaresvcs@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> In addition to the two other proposals regarding unofficial content, >>>>> included below because this one refers to them, Curtis pointed out th= at he >>>>> had made three rather than two on this topic. The one we are consider= ing >>>>> here is listed below as number six. >>>>> >>>>> This motion is now waiting to see if anyone chooses to second it. >>>>> >>>>> .karis. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> *Concerning Unofficial Social Media Presences* >>>>>> >>>>>> *Motion 4: "*The LLG shall adopt an official policy that the LLG or >>>>>> some body constituted by it for such purpose shall search for and mo= nitor >>>>>> social media or blog platforms, accounts, pages, profiles, groups, >>>>>> communities, bots, etc. (hereafter called "entities") which in any w= ay >>>>>> whatsoever relate to, promote, or use Lojban or other LLG-adopted lo= gical >>>>>> languages and which are not clearly human, personal, non-promoting, = or >>>>>> unofficial - and that such a body shall request such entities to >>>>>> prominently display a disclaimer stating that they are unofficial an= d not >>>>>> endorsed by the LLG.*"* >>>>>> * * I noted the following caveat with the original discussion which >>>>>> became a motion: "(I do not think that we can enforce such requests,= just >>>>>> make them. But having an official policy about addressing them may b= e good >>>>>> and gives us some moral 'standing')"* >>>>>> * * Moved by me, seconded by gleki.* >>>>>> >>>>>> *___* >>>>>> >>>>>> *Unofficialness Disclaimer* >>>>>> >>>>>> *Motion 5: "*All non-official pages or content on *.lojban.org must >>>>>> contain a disclaimer stating, at least, that the website is owned an= d >>>>>> managed by voluntary people, and that the marked contents are not >>>>>> necessarily harmonized with the official design of Lojban and may no= t >>>>>> reflect, let alone perfectly comply with, official specifications of= the >>>>>> same.*"* >>>>>> ** Moved by me, seconded by at least guskant and gleki.* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> **** Here it is! **** >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Motion 6: "*There shall be =E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2=80=8Bestablished= =E2=80=8B, constituted,=E2=80=8B >>>>>> and organized a body=E2=80=8B - under and by the authority of the LL= G -=E2=80=8B which >>>>>> will=E2=80=8B oversee,=E2=80=8B regulate=E2=80=8B, and (insofar as p= ossible) enforce=E2=80=8B the official >>>>>> implementation and application of LLG policy consistent with and >>>>>> pursuant to the content of the aforementioned motion proposals *(id >>>>>> est: Motion 4 or Motion 5)*, provided the passage of at least one >>>>>> thereof,=E2=80=8B or any similar policy of the LLG=E2=80=8B and whic= h shall search for >>>>>> either potential violations of the same or appropriate content which= should >>>>>> be so disclaimed (regardless of any implemented policy or other mand= ate, >>>>>> and not pertaining to only websites or entities or content subject t= o the >>>>>> aforementioned policies of the LLG); when it finds such content but = does >>>>>> not have the authority to pursue such disclaimer with respect to sai= d >>>>>> content, it shall notify the LLG of the situation and its recommenda= tions >>>>>> pertaining to such=E2=80=8B; =E2=80=8Bthis motion shall be inactive,= vacuous, and=E2=80=8B totally=E2=80=8B >>>>>> ignored if the aforementioned motion proposals *(Motion 4, Motion 5)= * both >>>>>> do not pass.=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8BAll of this body's authority shall be= inferior to and >>>>>> subsumed by that of the LLG and shall be bounded by such policy of t= he LLG >>>>>> and it shall not notify or attempt to regulate any entity or content= which >>>>>> is not subject to or the subject of such LLG policy, although it may= search >>>>>> for and review such content.=E2=80=8B It will regulate the officiall= y=E2=80=8B-=E2=80=8Bdesired >>>>>> design, implementation, usage=E2=80=8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8Bof = any such notice, >>>>>> protocol, or disclaimer=E2=80=8B in the stead of the LLG directly=E2= =80=8B. The body shall >>>>>> consist of an odd number of members, numbering at least five. The bo= dy >>>>>> shall publish all of its =E2=80=8Bdebate, =E2=80=8Bdecision=E2=80=8B= =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, =E2=80=8Band work to the LLG and >>>>>> will notify the pertinent websites and entities and other subjects, >>>>>> according to its own discretion or explicit and direct command by th= e LLG, >>>>>> as to its standards and policies once such are concretely establishe= d=E2=80=8B. >>>>>> Whilst the body is constituted, the LLG=E2=80=8B shall retain total = right of >>>>>> oversight and control over, but not necessarily responsibility for, = the >>>>>> body and any of its ouput=E2=80=8B or decisions or actions or method= s or works, as >>>>>> well as any matter belonging to its domain of purpose=E2=80=8B or it= s purview; the >>>>>> body shall govern and organize itself and design and enforce its own >>>>>> internal rules, its external standards, etc. =E2=80=8Binsofar as suc= h does not >>>>>> conflict with the decisions of the LLG=E2=80=8B, including the conte= nts of this >>>>>> motion=E2=80=8B. The body shall be composed on the earliest of=E2=80= =8B=E2=80=8B the first 1 >>>>>> January or first 1 June after its first membership is chosen, after = which >>>>>> point it shall exist for =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour =E2=80=8Bcalen= drical =E2=80=8Byears and six >>>>>> =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmonths and then =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80= =8Bbe dissolved=E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B and >>>>>> discontinued in its entirety, unless its lifetime is extended=E2=80= =8B and such >>>>>> expiration is delayed in part or whole by explicit=E2=80=8B official= action of the >>>>>> LLG; upon it=E2=80=8Bs expiration=E2=80=8B (described previously)=E2= =80=8B, all of its =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bpolicy, >>>>>> standards, work, decisions, and other output shall devolve to=E2=80= =8B and become >>>>>> the direct responsibility of=E2=80=8B the LLG and shall persist and = remain active >>>>>> and valid =E2=80=8Bas =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decisions, a= nd other output=E2=80=8B (as >>>>>> appropriate) of and in the responsibility of the LLG=E2=80=8B until = the LLG=E2=80=8B >>>>>> explicitly decides otherwise=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B or upon the = establishment and constitution >>>>>> of another body or organization under the authority of the LLG which= has or >>>>>> shall have purview which nonemptily intersects that of the body here= in >>>>>> described (in which case, all aforementioned pertinent =E2=80=8Bpoli= cy, standards, >>>>>> work, decisions, and other output=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherit= ed by and devolved to >>>>>> it unless otherwise specified by the LLG); the =E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80= =8Bmembership of the >>>>>> body =E2=80=8Bherein constituted =E2=80=8Bshall be =E2=80=8Bselected= in a manner which the LLG >>>>>> decides =E2=80=8Bto be appropriate, which shall be determined later= =E2=80=8B by the LLG; >>>>>> thereafter, all other selection and regulation of its membership sha= ll be >>>>>> under the primary authority and review of the body itself, although = any >>>>>> regular selection of new membership shall not occur prior to the ela= pse of >>>>>> fully two calendrical years and six calendrical months after the ori= ginal >>>>>> establishment of the body=E2=80=8B and selection of its first member= ship; all >>>>>> membership applications and notice for such application shall be pub= lic; >>>>>> eligibility requirements for membership to the body shall be subject= to >>>>>> review and change by the LLG and must be explicitly established, wit= h >>>>>> explicit permission of the LLG, prior to the selection of any new >>>>>> membership of the body.=E2=80=8B The name of the body herein constit= uted shall be >>>>>> determined by the LLG during or prior to, and as part of, the select= ion of >>>>>> its first membership.*=E2=80=8B"* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Llg-members mailing list >>>>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>>>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Llg-members mailing list >>>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Llg-members mailing list >>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Llg-members mailing list >> Llg-members@lojban.org >> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > > --089e0826762051bd8205622a4c6a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Oh, I see. Fair enough. We can add that explanation/defin= ition into it/our considerations of it now, since it has not yet been secon= ded.

Slight addendum to the mo= tion:
A second and third bullet point entry under &q= uot;where" (which defines terms and conditions applying in a meta way = to the motion proper) shall explain the meanings of the terms about which g= leki asked according to, roughly, what I just said in response (we can hamm= er out the details if necessary, but I think that we are good).
=

On Jan 7, 2018 01= :58, "Gleki Arxokuna" <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:


2018-01-07 9:52 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks <curtis.w.franks@gmail.com>:
"Syntax-oriented content" is composed = of things like proposals for how Lojban should work, analysis of how it doe= s work, perhaps some discussions or proposals concerning parsers, maybe ref= erence guides, and stuff like that. It is not poems or stories or translati= ons - you know: like, actual normal reading/content. It is more 'about&= #39; than 'in' the language.

The class of all zi'evla includes that of all fu'ivla (at le= ast in one - the intended - sense). It is basically the set of all brivla w= hich are not gismu or lujvo. (I think. I am really tired, so I may have got= ten that wrong. But you suggested the standard alternative, so you already = know what I mean. :P )


The word {zi'evla} is not officially documented so such explanat= ions must be included in the documents to be voted upon.
But mayb= e it's not the right time to include verbose explanations into the moti= on since it can theoretically be disapproved.


=

On Jan 7, 2018 01:37, "Gleki Arxokuna" <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com<= /a>> wrote:
What is "syntax-oriented content"?
What is "= zi'evla"? Maybe, fu'ivla?

2018-01-07 1:46 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks <curtis.w.franks@gmail.com>:
I= rescind my proposal of and support for Motion 6; I 'unmove' it. I = hereby proffer and move Motion 6 Amended 1ce, as described next:
=C2=A0"
=
****** Motion 6 Amended 1ce ******
= A motion and charter for a body:

___


*** Sectio= n 0 - Establishment and Purpose:

Cl= ause 0:
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause A: There shall herein be =E2=80=8Bauthorized, =E2=80= =8Bestablished=E2=80=8B, constituted,=E2=80=8B and organized a body=E2=80= =8B - under and by the authority of the LLG -=E2=80=8B which will=E2=80=8B = (according to its discretion) oversee,=E2=80=8B regulate=E2=80=8B, and (ins= ofar as possible) enforce=E2=80=8B the official implementation and applicat= ion of LLG policy consistent with and pursuant to the content of whichever = of the following items have been passed by the LLG and are in effect: (1) a= ny of aforementioned motion proposals (id est: Motion 4, Motion 5); (2) any= similar policy of the LLG which has been explicitly delegated to it.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Su= bclause B: According to its discretion, this same body additionally shall s= earch for both (1) potential violations of the same policies (as in Section= 0 Clause 0 Subclause A and in accord with Section 0 Clause 0 Subclause C),= and (2) any content whatsoever which should be so disclaimed (regardless o= f any implemented policy or other mandate, and not necessarily pertaining t= o only websites or entities or content subject to the aforementioned polici= es of the LLG) and which has been identified to be appropriate for such dis= claimer.
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Regardless of any other provision of the LLG or t= his motion (excluding Section 1 Clause 7), the primary focus of this body s= hall be on: (1) official-seeming accounts, pages, or other entities which a= re not clearly personal and which are not endorsed by or under the direct c= ontrol of the LLG; (2) teaching materials concerning topics related to the = LLG; (3) syntax-oriented content which may be confused for being officially= endorsed by the LLG, particular that which makes proposals or analysis con= cerning the structure or functionality of a language; (4) the curation of L= LG-associated or officially endorsed websites, publications, and content wi= thin its purview. Only with rare and carefully considered exception will th= is body concern itself with: (1) particular works in or usages of any langu= age or version thereof, particularly if they are creative or primarily inte= nded to be a non-instructive or position-nonassertive texts/content concern= ing the structure or functionality of a language; (2) obviously personal ac= counts or users who do not claim official endorsement by the LLG for the co= ntent which they publish. Section 1 Clause 4, Section 1 Clause 5, and Secti= on 1 Clause 7 shall be its primary legal, moral, operational, and intention= al constraints and shall have dominance over nearly all other concerns.

<= font face=3D"times new roman, serif">Clause 1: The body described in Sectio= n 0 Clause 0 shall herein be simply known as "the Body", "th= is Body", or (as appropriate) "it"; (note the orthographic c= asing of the first two options). This motion, upon its passage and entry in= to force, shall act as the charter for this Body and shall be active policy= of the LLG.

Clause 2: This entire = motion shall be inactive, vacuous, ineffective, and=E2=80=8B totally=E2=80= =8B ignored if: (1) Motion 4 and Motion 5 both do not pass prior to this mo= tion or during the same meeting of the LLG as that in which this motion was= most recently proposed; (2) there is a failure to incorporate this Body ac= cording to Section 3 by 12:00 (noon) UTC of 1 January A.D. 2020 or within o= ne full calendrical year of the passage of this motion by the LLG (whicheve= r is later); or (3) a directive according to or in the pursuance of Section= 1 Clause 4 is issued with the authorities therein described.
<= div>
___

*** Section 1 - Op= eration and Constraints:

Clause 0: = This Body will autonomously regulate the officially=E2=80=8B-=E2=80=8Bdesir= ed design, implementation, usage=E2=80=8B, and enforcement =E2=80=8Bof any = such notice, protocol, or disclaimer pursuant to Section 0=E2=80=8B Clause = 0 in the stead of the LLG directly=E2=80=8B.=C2=A0

Clause 1: The Body shall publish all of its =E2=80=8Bdebate= , =E2=80=8Bdecision=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, =E2=80= =8Band work to the LLG at least one per any twelve-month-long interval or i= mmediately upon the request of the LLG or upon its expiration or terminatio= n. It shall save and preserve all documentation of such, as a work of the B= ody, in perpetuity and in unmodified, properly maintained and connected and= organized, and complete form. The body shall proffer any documentation to = an appropriate law enforcement or legal official upon their request.=

Clause 2: The Body will notify the pertin= ent websites and entities and other subjects (pursuant to Section 0 Clause = 0), according to its own discretion or according to the explicit and direct= command by the LLG, as to its standards and policies once such are concret= ely established=E2=80=8B. Such notification shall be only in a manner deeme= d suitable by the Body and (when appropriate) the LLG directly.

Clause 3: Whilst the Body is constituted, the = LLG=E2=80=8B shall retain total right of oversight and control over, but no= t necessarily responsibility for, the Body and any of its ouput=E2=80=8B or= decisions or actions or methods or works, as well as any matter belonging = to its domain of purpose=E2=80=8B or its purview.

Clause 4: All of this Body's authority shall be inferior= to, derived from, and subsumed by that of the LLG or the law and shall be = bounded by any policy or command of the LLG or the law. It shall, in good f= aith, endeavor to totally comply with and fulfill any such policy or comman= d of LLG or the law. It shall also be subject to the following conditions:<= /font>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80= =A2 Condition 0: If the LLG ceases to exist, then this Body shall immediate= ly cease to exist too.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 1: If this charter becomes inoperable o= r is totally deleted or abolished, then this Body shall immediately cease t= o exist as if naturally expired (as in Section 1 Clause 8). If Section 0 Cl= ause 2 applies or is satisfied, then this charter is deemed to be totally i= noperable.
=C2=A0 = =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 2: At any time and for any purpose (or none), the= LLG or law may cause the utter and immediate termination of this Body or m= ay halt or direct any of its works, debates, or other processes. While unde= r investigation by the law or officers thereof, this body shall continue an= d operate such that it complies with the directives of the law or the afore= mentioned officer and reduces all other endeavors so as to maximize its abi= lity to comply therewith - and all other provisions to the contrary, includ= ing those by or according to this charter, shall be ignored.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 3= : The LLG (within the restrictions and permissions of the law) retains the = sole right to edit or amend, add to, remove from, or delete or abolish this= charter or any policy of the LLG which sustains this Body.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 4:= In all cases, the law or officers thereof shall be superior to the LLG.

= Clause 5: The Body shall not notify o= r attempt to in any way regulate or pressure any entity or content which is= not subject to or the subject of such LLG policy - although it may search = for and review such content.

Clause= 6: If and when this Body finds such content as that which is described in = Section 0 Clause 0 Subclause B but does not have the authority to pursue su= ch disclaimer with respect to said content, or if and when there is lack of= implemented policy or mandate concerning some content, it shall - accordin= g to its discretion - notify the LLG of the situation and its recommendatio= ns pertaining to such=E2=80=8B.=E2=80=8B The Body shall take no further act= ion regarding or relating to such content unless explicitly authorized to d= o by the LLG.

Clause 7:
=C2=A0Main provision: Regardles= s of other provisions of the LLG, the actions of this Body shall be minimal= istic, restrained, friendly and non-aggressive, and welcoming of experiment= ation with or in - as well as welcoming of any usage or promotion of - any = version of any language which is endorsed or promoted by the LLG or which o= therwise belongs to the purview or mandate of this Body or of the LLG (coll= ectively described herein as "language(s)"). It shall actively en= courage further innovation, exploration, usage, promotion, and creative or = technical or casual exercise of such languages in all of its external inter= actions.
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause A: This body never shall attack, defame, insult, or = pressure (1) any users/authors of or in the relevant language(s) (or their = associated communities) nor (2) the particular personal usage of any versio= n of any language or other related work; it shall never act in a manner whi= ch stifles or discourages anyone from enjoying, exploring, using, or promot= ing any such language; it shall take especial care regarding interactions w= ith prospective or potentially new users, authors, and community members, a= s well as people or entities with whom it has little prior interaction. In = such cases, it shall at most request that the author(s): (1) sufficiently d= efine new or experimental cmavo, gismu, rafsi, zi'evla, and cmene, as w= ell as sufficiently define and indicate nonstandard definitions thereof (re= gardless of their newness or other nature) or of lujvo; (2) sufficiently id= entify and explain nonstandard grammatical structures which appear or are u= sed within the content, or sufficiently describe the version(s) of the lang= uage which they are employing therein.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause B: Any particular polic= y, decision, work, action, or other output by this body shall be explicitly= and particularly reviewed against the provisions of Section 0 and Section = 1, particular Section 1 Clause 7, and the standards thereof prior to its fi= nalization and implementation. Such review shall be conducted by the Body a= s a whole or by its leadership.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause C: When there is doubt within = the membership of the Body concerning a potential decision or course of act= ion, its primary preference shall be inaction, acceptance, and community-bu= ilding.

<= /div>

Clause 8:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause A: After its first = composition (as described in Section 2 Clause 2), this Body shall exist for= =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Byears plus six = =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmonths.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause B: Then (upon the comple= tion of Section 1 Clause 8 Subclause A), it =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80=8Bbe disa= uthorized, dissolved=E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B discontinued, and d= isincorporated in its entirety - unless its lifetime is extended=E2=80=8B a= nd such expiration is delayed in part or whole by explicit=E2=80=8B officia= l action of the LLG. This shall constitute the natural expiration of the Bo= dy.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2= =80=A2 Subclause C: Upon it=E2=80=8Bs natural expiration=E2=80=8B (as descr= ibed in Section 1 Clause 8 Subclause B)=E2=80=8B, each of its =E2=80=8B=E2= =80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bpolicies, standards, work(s), decisions, and other = output shall return to=E2=80=8B and become the direct responsibility of=E2= =80=8B the LLG and all documentation by the Body (including thereof) shall = be permanently given to the sole care of LLG; such things shall persist and= remain active and valid =E2=80=8Bas policies, standards, work(s), decision= s, and other output=E2=80=8B (as appropriate) of and in the responsibility = of the LLG=E2=80=8B until: (1) the LLG=E2=80=8B explicitly decides otherwis= e or modifies or cancels them;=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B or (2) upon the e= stablishment and constitution of another (second) body or organization unde= r the authority of the LLG which has or shall have purview which nonemptily= intersects that of the Body herein described (according to Section 0) - in= which case, all aforementioned pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work,= decisions, and other output=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherited by and de= volved to this second body or organization unless otherwise specified by th= e LLG.

Clause 9:
<= font face=3D"times new roman, serif">=C2=A0Main provision: All questions or= proposals of whether to notify an external entity or subject (as described= in Section 0 or Section 1) must be clearly and explicitly stated to the me= mbers of the Body in an organized and easy to find manner during an officia= l meeting of the Body; no external or externally-oriented action or impleme= ntation resulting from or resolving such questions or proposals, including = any notification, may be conducted or undertaken in any portion or degree, = until the elapse of four full calendrical days plus a unit of time (which i= s to be determined by the Body according to Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0)= after: (1) appropriate debate is held and concluded; (2) a clear, relevant= decision is appropriately developed and agreed to by the members (possibly= including the special determination of the aforementioned unit of time); a= nd (3) explicit and particular certification of the result regarding its co= mpliance with Section 1 Clause 7 according to the internal regulations of t= he body. The following conditions and procedures shall further apply:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Co= ndition 0 - Determination of Delay: The aforementioned unit of time which i= s to be determined by the Body for the delay of an implementation or action= based upon an externally-oriented decision shall in all cases be at least = ten full calendrical days. If no special and explicit decision concerning t= he value of this unit is made during the accompanying more-general decision= /resolution, or is made in accordance with or by internal regulations of an= d by the Body in advance, then its value shall be ten full calendrical days= .
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2= =80=A2 Condition 1 - Minimal Requirements for Decisions: Appropriate and ac= tionable agreement by the members will, in all cases, be constituted by the= explicit concent of at least a strict majority of the attending members an= d in compliance with further internal regulations made by the Body in advan= ce.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2= =80=A2 Condition 2 - Default Decision: Concerning potential external action= s or externally-oriented decisions, the default position and result of any = proposed action or question shall, unless explicitly agreed to by a strict = majority of the membership, be utter inaction (including a total lack of an= y notification or pressure, or indication thereof, of the external entity o= r subject) in anything related to the question of proposal in any manner wh= atsoever and compliance with Section 1 Clause 7. If no clear, relevant, non= -default-valued decision for a given question or proposal is appropriately = made and agreed to, then such a default result shall be perfectly obeyed by= the Body and all members thereof.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Procedure 0 - Veto: While the followi= ng procedure is underway and in effect, the aforementioned delay (defined i= n Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition = 0) shall not elapse further, instead becoming paused; upon the failure or c= ompletion of any attempt at the utilization of this procedure, such delay s= hall resume its elapsing from the state in which it was paused; completion = or fulfillment of Step 0 or Step 1 shall not pause the elapse of said delay= until both Step 0 and Step 1 are completed and fulfilled. This procedure s= hall follow the following steps (where Step 0 and Step 1 are mutually excha= ngeable):
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 0: Any non-censored member of the = Body can, for any reason whatsoever (or none), formally request that the LL= G review any non-default-valued resolution or decision of any such question= or proposal described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9; such re= quest must be submitted to the LLG in explicit fashion, and in a fashion wh= ich the members of the LLG can understand, within the delaying time interva= l described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 and in Section 1 Cl= ause 9 Condition 0. If the LLG is not currently meeting or accepting such p= etitions, then the member can instead make explicit (to the other members o= f the Body) their intentions to do so once the LLG meets and is open to acc= epting such petitions; they must fulfill this intention in a timely manner = at the next opportunity to do so, else this Procedure fails (or this Step i= s not satisfied) and the Body may proceed as if it was never invoked.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 1: Whilst such notice or intention (as described= in Step 0 of this Procedure) is made by the member, they are also to expli= citly and clearly notify the Body of the same and of their intended invocat= ion of this provision (Section 1 Clause 9 Procedure 0); they are to do so w= ithin the unit of time described in the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause = 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Condition 0.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Step 2: = Once Step 0 and Step 1 (each of this Procedure) are fulfilled (in either or= der), this Procedure takes effect and all relevant actions of the Body are = to halt immediately and the decision described in the Main Provision of Sec= tion 1 Clause 9 which is relevant to the invocation of this Procedure shall= not be acted upon or implemented or output in any matter whatsoever until = the LLG makes a decision concerning it and all related discussions. If eith= er Step 0 or Step 1 is not satisfied within the delay interval described in= the Main Provision of Section 1 Clause 9 and in Section 1 Clause 9 Conditi= on 0, then this Procedure will not be considered to be underway or in effec= t, and the Body can proceed as it was and the aforementioned time delay sha= ll continue elapsing (having never been paused); if Step 0 and Step 1 were = both satisfied within the time delay interval aforementioned, then the elap= se of said delay will immediately halt and be paused. This Step shall apply= and be obeyed even if its applicability is not recognized by the leadershi= p of the Body in a sufficiently timely manner.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 S= tep 3: Once such decision (as referenced in Step 2 of this Procedure) is ma= de by the LLG, this Procedure is completed and this Body shall immediately = and fully act accordingly and in good faith with the decision of the LLG (r= egardless of their original decision concerning the question or proposal). = If the relevant issue is never resolved by the LLG during the meeting durin= g which they are notified of the usage of this procedure, then the default = position on the question or proposal shall fully apply and this Body cannot= again entertain or take up such or related question or proposal (or other = implementation thereof), unless the new proposal be to cease some relevant = action and comply with Section 1 Clause 7, until the LLG so decides; while = this lattermost condition applies, this Procedure shall be considered to be= ongoing and in effect.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Definitions: The state of= being censored, as referenced in this provision, refers to the provisions = of Section 1 Clause 10; the default (or default state or default position) = herein referenced is that which is described in Section 1 Clause 9 Conditio= n 2.

Clause 10: The Body shall have= the power to censor its own members in a formal manner. The Body shall, in= advance, decide regulations concerning the censorship of any of their memb= ers via unanimous and explicit decision after appropriate notice to all mem= bers. Any decision to actually implement the censoring of any member must b= e made by unanimous decision of all members, excepting the subject of the p= roposed censorship, and only upon appropriate agreement by the LLG; in any = case, no state of censorship shall endure for more than one-hundred forty-f= our full calendrical days. Constraints on participation or decision making = within the Body which are to result from censorship shall only be those whi= ch accord with and result from the policy of the LLG (including this charte= r) and the explicit, prior internal regulations of the Body.

Clause 11: The Body shall immediately, during i= ts first meeting after incorporation according to Section 3, undertake to e= stablish internal rules and regulations which satisfy and enable the provis= ions of this section (id est: Section 1).

___


*** Section 2 - Composition:

Clause 0 - Membership:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause A: The Bo= dy shall consist of an odd number of members, numbering at least five, who = shall be members of the community or people acceptable to the Body and the = LLG and who accept their membership to the Body.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause B: The =E2=80= =8Bfirst =E2=80=8Bmembership of the Body shall be =E2=80=8Bselected in a ma= nner which the LLG decides =E2=80=8Bto be appropriate, which shall be deter= mined later=E2=80=8B by the LLG.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause C: Thereafter, all other (lat= er) selections and (internal) regulations of its membership shall be under = the primary, autonomous, and direct authority and review of the Body itself= , subject to the following conditions:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Condition = 0: Any regular/normal selection of new membership shall not occur prior to = the elapse of fully two calendrical years plus six calendrical months after= both the original establishment of this Body and the incorporation of this= Body according to Section 3.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2=E2=80=A2 Condition 1: Any ch= ange to such selection or regulation shall become effective only upon due n= otice to all members and the elapse of fourteen full calendrical days after= its passage, excepting the case of an emergency as determined by an at-lea= st-two-thirds supermajority of the attending members.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause D: All m= embership applications to the Body and notice for such application shall be= entirely public.
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Subclause E: All eligibility requirements for member= ship to the Body shall be entirely subject to review and change by the LLG = and must be explicitly established, with the explicit permission of the LLG= , prior to the selection of any new membership of the Body. This and other = basic internal regulations shall be the first business to be determined by = the Body during its first official meeting according to Section 2 Clause 2.=

Clause 1 - Organization: The Body = shall govern and organize itself - and design and enforce its own internal = rules, its external standards, etc. - =E2=80=8Bautonomously insofar as such= does not conflict with the decisions of the LLG=E2=80=8B, including the co= ntents of this motion=E2=80=8B. Such basic internal regulations shall be th= e first business to be determined by the Body during its first official mee= ting according to Section 2 Clause 2.

Clause 2 - Event of Composition and First Meeting: This Body shall be fi= rst composed on the earliest instance of 12:00 (noon) UTC of 1 January or 1= June which is at least thirty-six mutually emptily-intersecting, twenty-fo= ur-hour-long intervals after its incorporation (as described in Section 3).= It shall then officially meet for the first time, at a time and manner acc= ording to the wishes of all of its members. Its first business shall be to = determine its basic internal rules and regulations pursuant to each provisi= on of this charter.
=
___


*** Section 3 - Incorporation:

Clause 0: This body shall be incorporated upon and only upon the = completion and simultaneous fulfillment of each of the following conditions= :
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2= =80=A2 Condition 0: The first membership of this Body having been properly = selected, satisfying Section 2 Clause 0 with regard to people who have capa= city and willingness to maintain and realize active membership in the Body.=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80= =A2 Condition 1: A general name for this Body is determined by the LLG in a= n official act thereof.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Condition 2: Upon review of the purported satisf= action of all other conditions of Section 3 Clause 0 by the LLG, event of a= n explicit declaration and granting of incorporation of and to the Body by = the LLG occurs.=C2=A0
=C2=A0",=

where:
=C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Any reference to Motion 4 and M= otion 5 shall be understood to refer to the same motions as those so labell= ed in this current email chain or any modification, successor, continuance,= or replacement of the same.

On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 9:5= 0 AM, Creative Care Services <comcaresvcs@gmail.com> wro= te:
In addition = to the two other proposals regarding=C2=A0 unofficial content, included bel= ow because this one refers to them, Curtis pointed out that he had made thr= ee rather than two on this topic. The one we are considering here is listed= below as number six.

This motion is now waiting to see = if anyone chooses to second it.=C2=A0

.karis.=C2= =A0

<= div class=3D"gmail_extra">

Concerning Unoff= icial Social Media Presences

Motion 4: "The LLG shall adopt an official policy th= at the LLG or some body constituted by it for such purpose shall search for= and monitor social media or blog platforms, accounts, pages, profiles, gro= ups, communities, bots, etc. (hereafter called "entities") which = in any way whatsoever relate to, promote, or use Lojban or other LLG-adopte= d logical languages and which are not clearly human, personal, non-promotin= g, or unofficial - and that such a body shall request such entities to prom= inently display a disclaimer stating that they are unofficial and not endor= sed by the LLG."
=C2=A0* I noted the following caveat with the original dis= cussion which became a motion: "(I do not think that we can enforce su= ch requests, just make them. But having an official policy about addressing= them may be good and gives us some moral 'standing')"
=C2=A0* Moved by me,= seconded by gleki.

___<= /font>

Unofficialness Disclaimer

Motion 5: "All non-official pages or content o= n *.lojban.org=C2=A0mu= st contain a disclaimer stating, at least, that the website is owned and ma= naged by voluntary people, and that the marked contents are not necessarily= harmonized with the official design of Lojban and may not reflect, let alo= ne perfectly comply with, official specifications of the same."=
* Moved by me, s= econded by at least guskant and gleki.



=C2=A0**** Here= it is! ****


=
<= /div>
Motion 6: "There shall be =E2=80=8B= authorized, =E2=80=8Bestablished=E2=80=8B, constituted,=E2=80=8B and organi= zed a body=E2=80=8B - under and by the authority of the LLG -=E2=80=8B whic= h will=E2=80=8B oversee,=E2=80=8B regulate=E2=80=8B, and (insofar as possib= le) enforce=E2=80=8B the official implementation and application of LLG pol= icy consistent with and pursuant=C2=A0to the content of the aforementioned = motion proposals=C2=A0(id est: Motion 4 or Motion 5), provided the passage of at least one thereof,=E2=80=8B or any si= milar policy of the LLG=E2=80=8B and which shall search for either potentia= l violations of the same or appropriate content which should be so disclaim= ed (regardless of any implemented policy or other mandate, and not pertaini= ng to only websites or entities or content subject to the aforementioned po= licies of the LLG); when it finds such content but does not have the author= ity to pursue such disclaimer with respect to said content, it shall notify= the LLG of the situation and its recommendations pertaining to such=E2=80= =8B; =E2=80=8Bthis motion shall be inactive, vacuous, and=E2=80=8B totally= =E2=80=8B ignored if the aforementioned motion proposals=C2=A0(Motion 4, Motion 5)=C2=A0both do not pass.=E2=80=8B =E2= =80=8BAll of this body's authority shall be inferior to and subsumed by= that of the LLG and shall be bounded by such policy of the LLG and it shal= l not notify or attempt to regulate any entity or content which is not subj= ect to or the subject of such LLG policy, although it may search for and re= view such content.=E2=80=8B It will regulate the officially=E2=80=8B-=E2=80= =8Bdesired design, implementation, usage=E2=80=8B, and enforcement =E2=80= =8Bof any such notice, protocol, or disclaimer=E2=80=8B in the stead of the= LLG directly=E2=80=8B. The body shall consist of an odd number of members,= numbering at least five. The body shall publish all of its =E2=80=8Bdebate= , =E2=80=8Bdecision=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bs=E2=80=8B, =E2=80= =8Band work to the LLG and will notify the pertinent websites and entities = and other subjects, according to its own discretion or explicit and direct = command by the LLG, as to its standards and policies once such are concrete= ly established=E2=80=8B. Whilst the body is constituted, the LLG=E2=80=8B s= hall retain total right of oversight and control over, but not necessarily = responsibility for, the body and any of its ouput=E2=80=8B or decisions or = actions or methods or works, as well as any matter belonging to its domain = of purpose=E2=80=8B or its purview; the body shall govern and organize itse= lf and design and enforce its own internal rules, its external standards, e= tc. =E2=80=8Binsofar as such does not conflict with the decisions of the LL= G=E2=80=8B, including the contents of this motion=E2=80=8B. The body shall = be composed on the earliest of=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B the first 1 January or fir= st 1 June after its first membership is chosen, after which point it shall = exist for =E2=80=8Bfully =E2=80=8Bfour =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Byears = and six =E2=80=8Bcalendrical =E2=80=8Bmonths and then =E2=80=8Bshall =E2=80= =8Bbe dissolved=E2=80=8B, disconstituted,=E2=80=8B and discontinued in its = entirety, unless its lifetime is extended=E2=80=8B and such expiration is d= elayed in part or whole by explicit=E2=80=8B official action of the LLG; up= on it=E2=80=8Bs expiration=E2=80=8B (described previously)=E2=80=8B, all of= its =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decisions= , and other output shall devolve to=E2=80=8B and become the direct responsi= bility of=E2=80=8B the LLG and shall persist and remain active and valid = =E2=80=8Bas =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decisions, and other output= =E2=80=8B (as appropriate) of and in the responsibility of the LLG=E2=80=8B= until the LLG=E2=80=8B explicitly decides otherwise=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=E2= =80=8B or upon the establishment and constitution of another body or organi= zation under the authority of the LLG which has or shall have purview which= nonemptily intersects that of the body herein described (in which case, al= l aforementioned pertinent =E2=80=8Bpolicy, standards, work, decisions, and= other output=E2=80=8B =E2=80=8Bshall be inherited by and devolved to it un= less otherwise specified by the LLG); the =E2=80=8Bfirst =E2=80=8Bmembershi= p of the body =E2=80=8Bherein constituted =E2=80=8Bshall be =E2=80=8Bselect= ed in a manner which the LLG decides =E2=80=8Bto be appropriate, which shal= l be determined later=E2=80=8B by the LLG; thereafter, all other selection = and regulation of its membership shall be under the primary authority and r= eview of the body itself, although any regular selection of new membership = shall not occur prior to the elapse of fully two calendrical years and six = calendrical months after the original establishment of the body=E2=80=8B an= d selection of its first membership; all membership applications and notice= for such application shall be public; eligibility=C2=A0requirements for me= mbership to the body shall be subject to review and change by the LLG and m= ust be explicitly established, with explicit permission of the LLG, prior t= o the selection of any new membership of the body.=E2=80=8B The name of the= body herein constituted shall be determined by the LLG during or prior to,= and as part of, the selection of its first membership.=E2= =80=8B"
=
=

_______________________________________________<= br> Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members



_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members



_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members


_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members



_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members

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