Received: from localhost ([::1]:50572 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1ebaqV-0004qF-IS; Tue, 16 Jan 2018 15:40:47 -0800 Received: from mail-wr0-f170.google.com ([209.85.128.170]:38600) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1ebapz-0004oX-1x for llg-members@lojban.org; Tue, 16 Jan 2018 15:40:15 -0800 Received: by mail-wr0-f170.google.com with SMTP id x1so12864363wrb.5 for ; Tue, 16 Jan 2018 15:40:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=S43JVswxHKSkeFXtgnHKCa3MW7yBh7+r4oeFadVzS+0=; b=WRDshl9NHh5qisLGBrlBd/nA6pFYnK66laa4UHl0kBLY2TilNzY59gs5iHUPqG+FSj 7+MXqVms1bzr+Dw2UaaHGAsIrctmrXDRGEorFroGEIlJHSqtX1RtduALe/kbu3NYhVDV VXO2PRMTrX2RgiSe9r67Cp6WTjS8G6BwoIXqGgiDAZ6p+ypLCPqN+9F3HInmaZhxwcAM 1rsBfpBTyuIpNrCaEYUgn+7NPcuo56F57bAhW4u/q8I0lb0utBA10zwh4azFnAVZ2u1y M4KXPHU1c9YQ0ve15Psp3f7sWyqiS0OH1iWxXPNsuGkQLOnTH1Eh0xzGid+qAM7JWJVT pzNA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=S43JVswxHKSkeFXtgnHKCa3MW7yBh7+r4oeFadVzS+0=; b=CoYupwGB9P6WdrkmlPowIhc8nD4a0gf11cKblatfgy53YjdRitUTPmC4AsptbM3/cV e9jOBLffIQecJVLpaRLX+Qqc0OPoLf+mx6n5kuftKK9qvPySk2dZpY4eevc/PrzSLdpl JN0yVzRZVGfntQ3sq9V0OwloGUJMrxRppm6lhC5Brg6GSTqcHVYu++Cmx+JBEz7EW2SI YtXcxbKnJLTYjn41bBfk/ww300J9Q87ZtM5EiWs+SYEKERTQz6fHoqwFNB7g2qQ8WRen CS1koFaNWdaG0GbzFtTJB+3Lr9BImJ5IjFqRemKELDxqJ32dygtd0B+U3yglqINmnM1T Mxqg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytc62Pbg+mefQPSCHndktjehkr+yhIxsU0RX+4CPMYDqb0l1Cc2t 70QoUnDdGYKRW5hpeUjR8xlRNfjgf5CtAgKCXWs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBosydHwYXT5sNn2hEhj+ONr1SEqHN2iRWp717yiiCvKecG/IzIXw0FcsjfBeqHzqjEBpI1JjIIzuMe2DtpiA2eg= X-Received: by 10.223.177.207 with SMTP id r15mr826338wra.32.1516146008291; Tue, 16 Jan 2018 15:40:08 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.145.197 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Jan 2018 15:40:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.223.145.197 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Jan 2018 15:40:07 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: And Rosta Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2018 23:40:07 +0000 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Unfinished Business: BPFK X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7992484925038049520==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============7992484925038049520== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045e7de4407c580562ed40ac" --f403045e7de4407c580562ed40ac Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On 5 Jan 2018 16:30, "selpahi" wrote: There's something else that should be clarified about And's definition. Does "unambiguous bidirectionality from PAS to phonological form and from phonological form to PAS" imply that every PAS has *exactly* one corresponding phonological form (as opposed to one or more)? No. (I didn't mean "biunique".) Every PAS should have at least one (but possibility more) corresponding phonological form (with the necessary caveats about new 'words' being created as necessary). Every phonological form should correspond to exactly one PAS. Because that would be quite a rigid language. In other words, does that definition exclude things that let you change the word order without changing the meaning (like selma'o FA)? No. There's a sense in which the order in which the units of information are revealed to the hearer affects the hearer's experience and so constitutes a kind of meaning or at least a kind of communicative effect; but it's not part of PAS; it's orthogonal to loglanghood. --And. --f403045e7de4407c580562ed40ac Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On 5 Jan 2018 16:30, "selpahi" <selpahi@selpahi.de> wrote:

There's something else that should be clarified about And's definit= ion. Does "unambiguous bidirectionality from PAS to phonological form = and from phonological form to PAS" imply that every PAS has *exactly* = one corresponding phonological form (as opposed to one or more)?

No. (I d= idn't mean "biunique".) Every PAS should have at least one (b= ut possibility more) corresponding phonological form (with the necessary ca= veats about new 'words' being created as necessary). Every phonolog= ical form should correspond to exactly one PAS.=C2=A0

Because that would be quite a rigid langu= age. In other words, does that definition exclude things that let you chang= e the word order without changing the meaning (like selma'o FA)?

No. T= here's a sense in which the order in which the units of information are= revealed to the hearer affects the hearer's experience and so constitu= tes a kind of meaning or at least a kind of communicative effect; but it= 9;s not part of PAS; it's orthogonal to loglanghood.

--And.
--f403045e7de4407c580562ed40ac-- --===============7992484925038049520== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Llg-members mailing list Llg-members@lojban.org http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members --===============7992484925038049520==--