Received: from localhost ([::1]:56322 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1exaZF-00019t-7q; Sun, 18 Mar 2018 08:49:53 -0700 Received: from mail-oi0-f48.google.com ([209.85.218.48]:46877) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1exaYi-00017r-0m for llg-members@lojban.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2018 08:49:22 -0700 Received: by mail-oi0-f48.google.com with SMTP id x12so12373501oie.13 for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2018 08:49:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=4vSy1zGSzHpA1kN8uuXl8W2zkaGUSLUECx3p0BRnOI4=; b=acb/cHsPH+uGwDJJUC3cIYiSuklXfSucEAotaePInzcnER1IlMwanGEz5XvnrtCjNv tA6cUWhJUMA/vnLSxHVCCPrPkX1iw4ydMfvUvOZTFkz17UmBKinwv2m5HIf2FAzdvX1B +ce4QwJ1ghokq5EDwc+a2mKblRY8BlUigl6LGk/xxH2YR5IugUFenOHPKJsMNTAL0IW8 jhUsF51Hw6cC4TU8DPOgufhQ/KooJrc6o9j4wET+0imjhJJxTOUoQuLxem92HtR5zaku BW0SPWDuxXOiXOEsaM9qWnyylBUCksYdtXS4a9CP6NmHvnMoGqVTsz7Fm7wnSR8SOx6V XVBg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=4vSy1zGSzHpA1kN8uuXl8W2zkaGUSLUECx3p0BRnOI4=; b=sh3dGlloOh7fizuly5QYcSb5I90cB4zBQBDI3HIT1F1yLkm8iHytC5ma2y+5S15rBI xYlo6YVviBznEL0oo+MJq70rMkOgYhi/D58k6o8tEAujzD4TcFbvZtqI6hW6ogXmIswX NBo/DSknKjNRl7VoSNZniMq7+lUNy1N2xu7cOPeaITwrPEOFh8gazTDz58O+J9xf3Fj5 Xkg/fP6YVqxWQCuXgYXBXFe0JLtW1F4gmcXYRn6qb3pMFXoAw+lLEwbAxAmrZydZL4Ei dpyn7JuDZFEDYE8z5Nb1bLBU2Gf4V2T0JRx4JmWKZViJGXbp6BclzBkYk6BVia/O5nuF Ra+Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AElRT7GLtT4iaVQUzN2fSKTn0dI/5+cEtDD3Zv/ZvafWDG9RQQIU+ucX 6bQL3G96d+u7UxhiEYy+bIeq0ioPU8+2yc8RQw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AG47ELuBWOrsQeiOh3wBJDgG8TIx+/nVTi1jeZBRBV/KmVgYnqd2EEpUa/1pe/Z8Bmv2raXx9DuKDnaUsy5G6ZlyGSM= X-Received: by 10.202.193.5 with SMTP id r5mr5130809oif.270.1521388152064; Sun, 18 Mar 2018 08:49:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.201.90.72 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Mar 2018 08:48:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <911780df-0d1e-0137-8efd-83a3e6a80e47@selpahi.de> From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2018 18:48:31 +0300 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Vote to Adjourn, cast your ballot here X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6990280614263709070==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============6990280614263709070== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113d65ee5e913d0567b1c8f1" --001a113d65ee5e913d0567b1c8f1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2018-03-18 18:31 GMT+03:00 guskant : > As Selpahi's termination of his LLG-membership was accepted by the > president, I have one question and one declaration. > > 1. Question > We had a voting result of ten "aye" for Selpahi to be the chair of > BPFK. Is it still valid, and how will it be applied? > > 2. Declaration > As Selpahi left, I also want to leave the LLG now, though I would like > to continue observing your future meetings in any format. > > Here is the reason for the declaration. See the Notes below for the > [Number]. > > I have been making my efforts to make the Lojban grammar and semantics > sane in BPFK [1], and to make the information of Lojban on the > Internet clear to the learners [2], but you all have been neglecting > my suggestions. I hereby confirm that I have never moved to penalize > Gleki for any of his troublesome activities, but have only moved to > resolve the problems. However, you rather blamed me for the accusation > against Gleki [3], and guarded your beloved friend Gleki. The LLG has > been neglecting the problems I raised for two years, and additionally, > you have let me loose my chance for raising two motions that I > prepared for "New Business" in this meeting, although I repeatedly > told you in this meeting that I was only waiting for the time of > talking about the subject. > > My abstention from voting to adjourn posted on 2018-03-15 was based on > the same despair that Selpahi wrote about more expressively than I can > do. Because I don't have prestige like Selpahi, I cannot fight alone > against the decay of Lojban without his support. > > End of the reason for the declaration. > > I'm waiting for an answer to the question. > > Regards, > Guskant > > Notes. > > [1] The CLL includes serious problems from a logical point of view. > The most important two of them are described by Xorxes and by me > respectively on the pages below: > https://mw.lojban.org/papri/scope_of_na > https://mw.lojban.org/papri/na_go%27i > > [2] Not only on the open letter > http://guskant.github.io/lojbo/open_letter/open_letter.html > but also in this meeting I wrote about the recent situation as follows: > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/private/llg-members/ > 2018-January/001826.html > [...] > Currently, the following information is out of control of the LLG, and > actually deceives people into believing that the information were > approved by the LLG: > > - All files under https://mw.lojban.org/extensions/ that is a symbolic > link of Gleki's personal directory: > http://vrici.lojban.org/~gleki/mediawiki-1.19.2/extensions/ It was true. Not anymore, around 2 years passed since it was true. > > - most of mediawiki or tiki pages under *.lojban.org that are managed > by volunteers with no rule > - All repositories of Gleki's la-lojban https://github.com/la-lojban , > some of which are published as web pages under > https://la-lojban.github.io/ . > - All repositories of the Lojban Coders' Group > https://github.com/lojban that are managed by volunteers with no rule, > some of which are published as web pages under > https://lojban.github.io/ . > [...] > > [3] Several times by several persons. I don't keep the list of them, > but the recent blame on me is recorded here: > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/private/llg-members/ > 2018-January/001840.html > > End of notes. > > 2018-03-18 0:00 GMT+00:00 Creative Care Services : > > I wish you well in your endeavors, selpa'i. Thank you for the time and > > energy you have put into this organization and lojban itself over the > years. > > > > .karis. > > > > > > On Mar 17, 2018 13:29, "selpahi" wrote: > >> > >> On 15.03.2018 02:43, Creative Care Services wrote: > >>> > >>> Ok everyone. adjournment has been proposed and seconded. Please cast > your > >>> vote by replying directly to this message. > >> > >> > >> I vote NO. There is no use in carrying the same old problems to the ne= xt > >> meeting, and the next meeting, and the next meeting. Solve them now if > you > >> want to solve them. > >> > >> This being the only No-vote so far, I think it's not too far out to > >> consider this another failed meeting. Since this was, from my point of > view, > >> the LLG's final chance to demonstrate any usefulness, and since it has > not > >> done so in any meaningful way, I hereby terminate my LLG-membership. > >> > >> I wish, for the sake of the remaining membership, that future meetings > be > >> held in a more adequate format, but I am not holding my breath. Best o= f > luck > >> to all of you. > >> > >> ~~~mi'e la selpa'i > >> > >> --- > >> Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr=C3=BCft= . > >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Llg-members mailing list > >> Llg-members@lojban.org > >> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Llg-members mailing list > > Llg-members@lojban.org > > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > > > > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > --001a113d65ee5e913d0567b1c8f1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2018-03-18 18:31 GMT+03:00 guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com><= /span>:
As Selpahi's termination of h= is LLG-membership was accepted by the
president, I have one question and one declaration.

1. Question
We had a voting result of ten "aye" for Selpahi to be the chair o= f
BPFK. Is it still valid, and how will it be applied?

2. Declaration
As Selpahi left, I also want to leave the LLG now, though I would like
to continue observing your future meetings in any format.

Here is the reason for the declaration. See the Notes below for the [Number= ].

I have been making my efforts to make the Lojban grammar and semantics
sane in BPFK [1], and to make the information of Lojban on the
Internet clear to the learners [2], but you all have been neglecting
my suggestions. I hereby confirm that I have never moved to penalize
Gleki for any of his troublesome activities, but have only moved to
resolve the problems. However, you rather blamed me for the accusation
against Gleki [3], and guarded your beloved friend Gleki. The LLG has
been neglecting the problems I raised for two years, and additionally,
you have let me loose my chance for raising two motions that I
prepared for "New Business" in this meeting, although I repeatedl= y
told you in this meeting that I was only waiting for the time of
talking about the subject.

My abstention from voting to adjourn posted on 2018-03-15 was based on
the same despair that Selpahi wrote about more expressively than I can
do. Because I don't have prestige like Selpahi, I cannot fight alone against the decay of Lojban without his support.

End of the reason for the declaration.

I'm waiting for an answer to the question.

Regards,
Guskant

Notes.

[1] The CLL includes serious problems from a logical point of view.
The most important two of them are described by Xorxes and by me
respectively on the pages below:
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/scope_of_na
https://mw.lojban.org/papri/na_go%27i

[2] Not only on the open letter
http://guskant.github.io/lojbo/open_= letter/open_letter.html
but also in this meeting I wrote about the recent situation as follows:
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/private/llg-members/2018-January/001826.html
[...]
Currently, the following information is out of control of the LLG, and
actually deceives people into believing that the information were
approved by the LLG:

- All files under https://mw.lojban.org/extensions/ that i= s a symbolic
link of Gleki's personal directory:
http://vrici.lojban.org/~gleki/media= wiki-1.19.2/extensions/

It was tru= e. Not anymore, around 2 years passed since it was true.

=C2=A0

- most of mediawiki or tiki pages under *.lojban.org that are managed
by volunteers with no rule
- All repositories of Gleki's la-lojban https://github.com/la-lojban= ,
some of which are published as web pages under
https://la-lojban.github.io/ .
- All repositories of the Lojban Coders' Group
= https://github.com/lojban that are managed by volunteers with no rule,<= br> some of which are published as web pages under
= https://lojban.github.io/ .
[...]

[3] Several times by several persons. I don't keep the list of them, but the recent blame on me is recorded here:
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/private/llg-members/2018-January/001840.html

End of notes.

2018-03-18 0:00 GMT+00:00 Creative Care Services <comcaresvcs@gmail.com>:
> I wish you well in your endeavors, selpa'i. Thank you for the time= and
> energy you have put into this organization and lojban itself over the = years.
>
> .karis.
>
>
> On Mar 17, 2018 13:29, "selpahi" <selpahi@selpahi.de> wrote:
>>
>> On 15.03.2018 02:43, Creative Care Services wrote:
>>>
>>> Ok everyone. adjournment has been proposed and seconded. Pleas= e cast your
>>> vote by replying directly to this message.
>>
>>
>> I vote NO. There is no use in carrying the same old problems to th= e next
>> meeting, and the next meeting, and the next meeting. Solve them no= w if you
>> want to solve them.
>>
>> This being the only No-vote so far, I think it's not too far o= ut to
>> consider this another failed meeting. Since this was, from my poin= t of view,
>> the LLG's final chance to demonstrate any usefulness, and sinc= e it has not
>> done so in any meaningful way, I hereby terminate my LLG-membershi= p.
>>
>> I wish, for the sake of the remaining membership, that future meet= ings be
>> held in a more adequate format, but I am not holding my breath. Be= st of luck
>> to all of you.
>>
>> ~~~mi'e la selpa'i
>>
>> ---
>> Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren gepr=C3= =BCft.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Llg-members mailing list
>> Llg-members@lojban.org
>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/list= info/llg-members
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Llg-members mailing list
> Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo= /llg-members
>

_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members

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