Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54860 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1fEtkl-0000gL-Gx; Sat, 05 May 2018 02:45:19 -0700 Received: from mail-vk0-f45.google.com ([209.85.213.45]:44117) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1fEtkD-0000fI-St for llg-members@lojban.org; Sat, 05 May 2018 02:44:48 -0700 Received: by mail-vk0-f45.google.com with SMTP id x66-v6so10267706vka.11 for ; Sat, 05 May 2018 02:44:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Cc+fUx9q/FoQxeaawR65L1rCoaRM2RfJMlVX9e2kcQQ=; b=FdB1ikcQ2FF3gZ62u5P/1nYa7DL20p5HqGzxoNezD2m+qrzEfXQLpxEUNootd2SjXP LvLWvTUAFYfbJ9I7qGdcqrEGriScuhyPS8W0wPKdVnmpwfmcufGl2UzibaNsifHQcCal H62TSj9HWMfs2+WlBVtzISxhsNaPkJQvHNd9UT+OcQzNp03EZ90C4WqLNAauVKnGseTC XgPNeb+87eI1vUfRCQ2hlYUFnP5L/IocV5oMGVmDtpQHr+4FEOGkpYOVVuQU1KXRBY1z hbBKMHR/V+5xhB8jlEelvkSWBhJClmLAOthsS10J1B4f9e+K/uWbwQnTF2kObsfNOj0K 73VQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=Cc+fUx9q/FoQxeaawR65L1rCoaRM2RfJMlVX9e2kcQQ=; b=BWytLPeJisaD9snXI18hgQeN3jqe+tiL0YPZcRTtOnMyb24qeJyeZ8IHKmaI3nStT+ aOeddsHLPn7Epk+dAhKi/TIueRl3GMneRmHRrQdepEVrlm/IB+I7V1owY/Y3eVlUL56P W1JU46gX9dODp1s04stqcliUxjV1/iqpTeO8Lcv7p2nuG7L5bN+Q5HaFIYBG1cGROQ9X XSjgIFR0vGSy2G7RkVzsvPPPqlQio4HWh0lmVjpLdZLpSDibyKkxzL4qbgjGTsSycjh8 lXPjmVibGxChrgK9DUhFxX/4xSaj96FKk9Rai4M9XQ0IBBECEvqHOhabSmUMmnukGG7C UAYA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tAmPoiCpIyxUKUuV9/z/aIFCei1RncoEfefHrqonbHq/HYB3hfe fXL1TquEQb+5SCTExpTCEY96PzGWPDJntJzejRA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AB8JxZoMf8YQrytQJ84PPKPjmTTauQBQLOoQu2bbdEI3v0/kjxeXOeCl/4sIQxSyQ04cjw0T/cZRxAGpsKXL7lHZYeU= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:c28e:: with SMTP id s136-v6mr26372907vkf.41.1525513478649; Sat, 05 May 2018 02:44:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Creative Care Services Date: Sat, 05 May 2018 09:44:27 +0000 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- Subject: Re: [Llg-members] next meeting format X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6498489986910465510==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============6498489986910465510== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000febb50056b724802" --000000000000febb50056b724802 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" We have discussion of Slack because of its ability to do threading, and its limitations for storage, we've had discussion of Telegram or another totally linear chat, both as a desirable and undesirable trait. Discord had been brought up with its lack of real threading and its structure on mobile devices which some like and some do not. Several other options have also been raised. Woost/Wust, which I was unable to download and look at because it's being changed so dramatically. Mattermost costs money. Rocket Chat doesn't support chats and I'm not familiar with it so can't run a meeting on it right now. Gitit is a wiki-type set up. I've looked over all of these and decided that for this meeting we'll use Discord. I am familiar with it, we can take threading with permissions and move away from threading if the conversations becomes confusing, we can pin the agents file, and it keeps a record. If we find ourselves unhappy with this solution, we can make other arrangements later. The link to our new Discord LLG Channel, with rim for this and other meetings, is; https://discord.gg/t73uD8H .karis. On Sat, May 5, 2018, 00:58 Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > > > 2018-05-05 4:54 GMT+03:00 Creative Care Services : > >> Woost might be great, except it's being updated and apparently isn't >> Woost. I also haven't ever used it so would want to take a look first since >> I'm currently President. >> > > > Maintained software is usually permanently updated. No updates is a > usually a sign of dead projects. > I think it won't be any good to change to a tool that is worse than the > current mailing list in handling threads. > Woost is more powerful than the current mailing list system. I just showed > what could be theoretically used. > > But let's try some messengers then. I vote for Slack. > > > > > >> .karis. >> >> On Wed, May 2, 2018, 15:08 Gleki Arxokuna >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> 2018-05-02 21:30 GMT+03:00 Ilmen : >>> >>>> How about using channel categories as threads? >>>> >>> >>> Person A utters something and this message must have an ability to start >>> a new thread. >>> >>> Here is how it's done in Slack: >>> http://joxi.net/Dr8Xo51tkwO3Or >>> Any message can become a seed to a whole thread. >>> Channel categories are forethought things. You can not know beforehand >>> which topics will be raised or (sic!) what a certain topic will *shift >>> into*. >>> >>> Ideally, we'd want a tree-like structure >>> 1. like commenting system at jbovlaste.lojban.org or >>> 2. like when one creates new threads by changing topics of email >>> messages and other people replying to particular messages. Not chaning the >>> topic of en email message equals to continuing the thread, changing the >>> topic means opening a new thread. >>> >>> >>> >>> (we may even consider a hypergraph system like >>> https://github.com/woost/wust but it could be an overkill) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> I don't know what Discord permission is needed to be able to create new >>>> #-categories but I suppose it is possible to give all the members this >>>> power somehow. >>>> >>>> >>>> Gleki Arxokuna wrote: >>>> >>>> Among self-hosted ones >>>> Mattermost supports threads (Mattermost can be installed e.g. via >>>> https://github.com/mozilla/mattermost-heroku/). >>>> Rocket.Chats do not support threads: >>>> https://github.com/RocketChat/Rocket.Chat/issues/1112 >>>> >>>> Self-hosting software seems to me like an overkill. >>>> >>>> Also note that Slack retains not more than 10,000 messages in its free >>>> of charge plan. >>>> >>>> >>>> 2018-04-30 8:33 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks : >>>> >>>>> I prefer threads. >>>>> >>>>> ~~~ Curtis W. Franks >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 01:25 Gleki Arxokuna >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2018-04-30 4:43 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks : >>>>>> >>>>>>> According to this ( >>>>>>> https://feedback.discordapp.com/forums/326712-discord-dream-land/suggestions/15859336-threaded-text-chat >>>>>>> ), which is not even a month old, it seems to be impossible. I see multiple >>>>>>> other requests for the same feature going back several years, so it seems >>>>>>> that either it is impossible or a decent fraction of the prospective >>>>>>> Discord community does not know how to do it (of course, my search is going >>>>>>> to bias my results). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I should add that I did not read the entire page all the way - just >>>>>>> a few comments in order to make sure that no-one immediately told the >>>>>>> original poster that threading is indeed possible. If someone did so later >>>>>>> on, though, then I definitely missed it. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Neither does Gitter: >>>>>> https://gitter.im/gitterHQ/topics/topic/57f4e71fe581953f7e9b9833/integrating-topics-with-chat >>>>>> >>>>>> We then need to decide if we need threads that is whether we shall >>>>>> discuss several topics in parallel. >>>>>> If some of us do then we need to think of software that supports it. >>>>>> As I said Slack does. Maybe other (or other self hosted) software can do >>>>>> that, idk. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ~~~ Curtis >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Garanti >>>> sans virus. www.avast.com >>>> >>>> <#m_8021749594615674294_m_-6607237438278547543_m_7341558891803489185_m_8280184215711468859_m_6794018740523581461_m_-2489832248397018812_m_5150670592946191930_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Llg-members mailing list >>>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Llg-members mailing list >>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Llg-members mailing list >> Llg-members@lojban.org >> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > --000000000000febb50056b724802 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
We have discussion of Slack because of its ability to do = threading, and its limitations for storage, we've had discussion of Tel= egram or another totally linear chat, both as a desirable and undesirable t= rait. Discord had been brought up with its lack of real threading and its s= tructure on mobile devices which some like and some do not. Several other o= ptions have also been raised. Woost/Wust, which I was unable to download an= d look at because it's being changed so dramatically. Mattermost costs = money. Rocket Chat doesn't support chats and I'm not familiar with = it so can't run a meeting on it right now. Gitit is a wiki-type set up.=

I've looked over all of t= hese and decided that for this meeting we'll use Discord. I am familiar= with it, we can take threading with permissions and move away from threadi= ng if the conversations becomes confusing, we can pin the agents file, and = it keeps a record. If we find ourselves unhappy with this solution, we can = make other arrangements later.

The link to our new Discord LLG Channel, with rim for this and other= meetings, is;


.karis.=C2=A0

On Sat, May 5, 2018, 00:58 Gleki A= rxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>= ; wrote:


2018-05-05 4:54 GMT+03= :00 Creative Care Services <comcaresvcs@gmail.com>:
Woost might be great, except it's being upda= ted and apparently isn't Woost. I also haven't ever used it so woul= d want to take a look first since I'm currently President.


Maintained software is usually per= manently updated. No updates is a usually a sign of dead projects.=C2=A0
I think it won't be any good to change to a tool that is worse = than the current mailing list in handling threads.
Woost is m= ore powerful than the current mailing list system. I just showed what could= be theoretically used.

But let's try some mes= sengers then. I vote for Slack.




.karis.=C2=A0

On Wed, May 2, 2018, 15:08 Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wro= te:


2018-05-02 21:30 GMT+03:00 = Ilmen <ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com>:
=20 =20 =20
How about using channel categories as threads?

Person A utters something and this message must have an a= bility to start a new thread.

Here is how it's= done in Slack:
Any message can become a s= eed to a whole thread.
Channel categories are forethought things.= You can not know beforehand which topics will be raised or (sic!) what a c= ertain topic will shift into.

Ideally, we&#= 39;d want a tree-like structure=C2=A0
1. like commenting system a= t jbovlaste.lojban.org or= =C2=A0
2. like when one creates new threads by changing topics of= email messages and other people replying to particular messages. Not chani= ng the topic of en email message equals to continuing the thread, changing = the topic means opening a new thread.



(we may even consider a hypergraph system like https://github.com/woost/wust but= it could be an overkill)


=C2= =A0
I don't know what Discord permission is needed to be able to create new #-categories but I suppose it is possible to give all the members this power somehow.


Gleki Arxokuna wrote:
Among self-hosted ones
Mattermost supports threads (Mattermost can be installed e.g. via https://github.com/mozilla/mattermost-heroku/).
Rocket.Chats do not support threads:=C2=A0https://github.com/Rock= etChat/Rocket.Chat/issues/1112

Self-hosting software seems to me like an overkill.

Also note that Slack retains not more than 10,000 messages in its free of charge plan.


2018-04-30 8:33 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks <curtis.w.franks@gmail.com>:
I prefer threads.

~~~ Curtis W. Franks

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 01:25 Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:


2018-04-30 4:43 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks <curtis.w.franks@= gmail.com>:

We then need to decide if we need threads that is whether we shall discuss several topics in parallel.
If some of us do then we need to think of software that supports it. As I said Slack does. Maybe other (or other self hosted) software can do that, idk.

=C2=A0


~~~ Curtis



3D"" Garanti sans v= irus. www.avast.com
=

_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org<= br> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members


_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org<= br> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members

_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http:= //mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members


_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http:= //mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members
--000000000000febb50056b724802-- --===============6498489986910465510== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Llg-members mailing list Llg-members@lojban.org http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members --===============6498489986910465510==--