Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55436 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1fEuKB-000274-Mo; Sat, 05 May 2018 03:21:55 -0700 Received: from mail-oi0-f44.google.com ([209.85.218.44]:37431) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1fEuJc-00025W-8q for llg-members@lojban.org; Sat, 05 May 2018 03:21:24 -0700 Received: by mail-oi0-f44.google.com with SMTP id w123-v6so12307017oia.4 for ; Sat, 05 May 2018 03:21:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=uIr22WP+VC6RVY2PyyAD0Wt+tQf5okPHxnLHEWHYLfY=; b=p4lzjzR4YWECr7gndpaTUlnc/c0omJyyZkYXJFRzuQO3eVsV1R+AwsrOHOB7NQ6ISi 3KiJqIcalcvt7lfeAMHke+v9qyLyexnvONzMyT770RihGie1Y51AtC2wET6rPnLJnrvH QGRFDABlsLzxkbL7tcuz5bUBuEN5W3CYGi6/s/goiQ6hPTTnBy5772OxTutfD+rvDOKW RNMv9MlHZh9V7W3kg7ztjE7SCTtjXxY4aP3uby1CKTyNZuvLIrwX+eovFuLj5E1EAQcN tfhdPp1E2FiwjhgSaTzhi/HYInMFPzRoqHdU95/IKTuFiaugE2EdePReoiwPKDso20LM 7b1A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=uIr22WP+VC6RVY2PyyAD0Wt+tQf5okPHxnLHEWHYLfY=; b=FsDtJaFUbKoLUKgGJTaPolrAyDREJmO9xEl1xLeuI4VWiYO0g10HOH3HmAJhmQlfC4 hiO7jUU+I08/X3iYZp48D2xTFj83aQcGYafuqbYQdmbWcnyNrV//qZ7kL/coT+9vxIec jgOAg5kPqEJUnEhLyS04hRcMHtpMTAG1F6nv3pG85rfgKWSqLA7WvYgBoiqvnKNvCzz0 csTUp3OhQ3bdSd//t5FpSjRjbsHjtvGyilgXfrNxLWlp4Fgvap+E+l4Wd05JJP0lNNWh BiMcxOwWFWyEmX2gBZlcd1U6gfQAt0Piy7dX16myz9RH0C+oZjlE4QgP8mNLP7U/sD+d lpPg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALQs6tCbt0z2MuEEeTq23atS2x0+ZACRsfjjqIBacUdastLAUBk9J/ti 071RE/qo7c2Vr1BUO146kgeh9NqcwxNn4Ig+0Yg9 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AB8JxZr6wKLXgaj7Ad8Zmkut86yYZmwx/yTNEkitI0pHwWaYWLJzCPfXJBdg/1RL1paAfp2eJLpW7FSeBu6FZ/EbTB8= X-Received: by 2002:aca:dac6:: with SMTP id r189-v6mr17723767oig.255.1525515669532; Sat, 05 May 2018 03:21:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.201.41.161 with HTTP; Sat, 5 May 2018 03:20:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Sat, 5 May 2018 13:20:28 +0300 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- Subject: Re: [Llg-members] next meeting format X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0363562400327880991==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============0363562400327880991== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000094f61e056b72cb4b" --00000000000094f61e056b72cb4b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" 2018-05-05 13:16 GMT+03:00 Gleki Arxokuna : > > > 2018-05-05 12:44 GMT+03:00 Creative Care Services : > >> We have discussion of Slack because of its ability to do threading, and >> its limitations for storage, we've had discussion of Telegram or another >> totally linear chat, both as a desirable and undesirable trait. Discord had >> been brought up with its lack of real threading and its structure on mobile >> devices which some like and some do not. Several other options have also >> been raised. Woost/Wust, which I was unable to download and look at because >> it's being changed so dramatically. Mattermost costs money. >> > > It doesn't. > Here is an example. https://framateam.org/signup_user_complete/?id=17b4ir6u6by6px693dm8kmy7yw Threads supported. > > >> Rocket Chat doesn't support chats and I'm not familiar with it so can't >> run a meeting on it right now. Gitit is a wiki-type set up. >> >> I've looked over all of these and decided that for this meeting we'll use >> Discord. I am familiar with it, we can take threading with permissions and >> move away from threading if the conversations becomes confusing, we can pin >> the agents file, and it keeps a record. If we find ourselves unhappy with >> this solution, we can make other arrangements later. >> >> The link to our new Discord LLG Channel, with rim for this and other >> meetings, is; >> >> https://discord.gg/t73uD8H >> >> .karis. >> >> On Sat, May 5, 2018, 00:58 Gleki Arxokuna >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> 2018-05-05 4:54 GMT+03:00 Creative Care Services >>> : >>> >>>> Woost might be great, except it's being updated and apparently isn't >>>> Woost. I also haven't ever used it so would want to take a look first since >>>> I'm currently President. >>>> >>> >>> >>> Maintained software is usually permanently updated. No updates is a >>> usually a sign of dead projects. >>> I think it won't be any good to change to a tool that is worse than the >>> current mailing list in handling threads. >>> Woost is more powerful than the current mailing list system. I just >>> showed what could be theoretically used. >>> >>> But let's try some messengers then. I vote for Slack. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> .karis. >>>> >>>> On Wed, May 2, 2018, 15:08 Gleki Arxokuna >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2018-05-02 21:30 GMT+03:00 Ilmen : >>>>> >>>>>> How about using channel categories as threads? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Person A utters something and this message must have an ability to >>>>> start a new thread. >>>>> >>>>> Here is how it's done in Slack: >>>>> http://joxi.net/Dr8Xo51tkwO3Or >>>>> Any message can become a seed to a whole thread. >>>>> Channel categories are forethought things. You can not know beforehand >>>>> which topics will be raised or (sic!) what a certain topic will *shift >>>>> into*. >>>>> >>>>> Ideally, we'd want a tree-like structure >>>>> 1. like commenting system at jbovlaste.lojban.org or >>>>> 2. like when one creates new threads by changing topics of email >>>>> messages and other people replying to particular messages. Not chaning the >>>>> topic of en email message equals to continuing the thread, changing the >>>>> topic means opening a new thread. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> (we may even consider a hypergraph system like >>>>> https://github.com/woost/wust but it could be an overkill) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I don't know what Discord permission is needed to be able to create >>>>>> new #-categories but I suppose it is possible to give all the members this >>>>>> power somehow. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Gleki Arxokuna wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Among self-hosted ones >>>>>> Mattermost supports threads (Mattermost can be installed e.g. via >>>>>> https://github.com/mozilla/mattermost-heroku/). >>>>>> Rocket.Chats do not support threads: https://github.com/Ro >>>>>> cketChat/Rocket.Chat/issues/1112 >>>>>> >>>>>> Self-hosting software seems to me like an overkill. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also note that Slack retains not more than 10,000 messages in its >>>>>> free of charge plan. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2018-04-30 8:33 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks : >>>>>> >>>>>>> I prefer threads. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ~~~ Curtis W. Franks >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 01:25 Gleki Arxokuna < >>>>>>> gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2018-04-30 4:43 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks >>>>>>>> : >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> According to this ( https://feedback.discordapp. >>>>>>>>> com/forums/326712-discord-dream-land/suggestions/15859336- >>>>>>>>> threaded-text-chat ), which is not even a month old, it seems to >>>>>>>>> be impossible. I see multiple other requests for the same feature going >>>>>>>>> back several years, so it seems that either it is impossible or a decent >>>>>>>>> fraction of the prospective Discord community does not know how to do it >>>>>>>>> (of course, my search is going to bias my results). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I should add that I did not read the entire page all the way - >>>>>>>>> just a few comments in order to make sure that no-one immediately told the >>>>>>>>> original poster that threading is indeed possible. If someone did so later >>>>>>>>> on, though, then I definitely missed it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Neither does Gitter: https://gitter.im/gitt >>>>>>>> erHQ/topics/topic/57f4e71fe581953f7e9b9833/integrating- >>>>>>>> topics-with-chat >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We then need to decide if we need threads that is whether we shall >>>>>>>> discuss several topics in parallel. >>>>>>>> If some of us do then we need to think of software that supports >>>>>>>> it. As I said Slack does. Maybe other (or other self hosted) software can >>>>>>>> do that, idk. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ~~~ Curtis >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Garanti >>>>>> sans virus. www.avast.com >>>>>> >>>>>> <#m_7293707312263603774_m_2284121673543324417_m_8021749594615674294_m_-6607237438278547543_m_7341558891803489185_m_8280184215711468859_m_6794018740523581461_m_-2489832248397018812_m_5150670592946191930_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Llg-members mailing list >>>>>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>>>>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Llg-members mailing list >>>>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>>>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Llg-members mailing list >>>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Llg-members mailing list >>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Llg-members mailing list >> Llg-members@lojban.org >> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >> >> > --00000000000094f61e056b72cb4b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2018-05-05 13:16 GMT+03:00 Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@g= mail.com>:


2018-05-05 12:44 GMT+03:00 Creative Care Serv= ices <comcaresvcs@gmail.com>:
We have discussion of Slack b= ecause of its ability to do threading, and its limitations for storage, we&= #39;ve had discussion of Telegram or another totally linear chat, both as a= desirable and undesirable trait. Discord had been brought up with its lack= of real threading and its structure on mobile devices which some like and = some do not. Several other options have also been raised. Woost/Wust, which= I was unable to download and look at because it's being changed so dra= matically. Mattermost costs money.

=
It doesn't.=C2=A0

Here is an example.

https://f= ramateam.org/signup_user_complete/?id=3D17b4ir6u6by6px693dm8kmy7yw

Threads supported.
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Ro= cket Chat doesn't support chats and I'm not familiar with it so can= 't run a meeting on it right now. Gitit is a wiki-type set up.

I've looked over all of these and= decided that for this meeting we'll use Discord. I am familiar with it= , we can take threading with permissions and move away from threading if th= e conversations becomes confusing, we can pin the agents file, and it keeps= a record. If we find ourselves unhappy with this solution, we can make oth= er arrangements later.

T= he link to our new Discord LLG Channel, with rim for this and other meeting= s, is;

https://discord.gg/t73uD8H
<= /div>

.karis.=C2=A0

On Sat,= May 5, 2018, 00:58 Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.= is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:


2018-05-05 4:54 GMT+03:00 Creative Care Services <comcaresvcs@gmail.c= om>:
Woost might be great, except it's being updated and appa= rently isn't Woost. I also haven't ever used it so would want to ta= ke a look first since I'm currently President.
<= br>

Maintained software is usually permanently upd= ated. No updates is a usually a sign of dead projects.=C2=A0
I th= ink it won't be any good to change to a tool that is worse than the cur= rent mailing list in handling threads.
Woost is more powerful= than the current mailing list system. I just showed what could be theoreti= cally used.

But let's try some messengers then= . I vote for Slack.



=

.karis.=C2=A0
<= div class=3D"gmail-m_7293707312263603774m_2284121673543324417m_802174959461= 5674294m_-6607237438278547543m_7341558891803489185m_8280184215711468859HOEn= Zb">

On Wed, May 2, 2018, 1= 5:08 Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is= .my.name@gmail.com> wrote:


2018-05-02 21:30 GMT+03:00 Ilmen &l= t;ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com<= /a>>:
=20 =20 =20
How about using channel categories as threads?


Any message can become a s= eed to a whole thread.
Channel categories are forethought things.= You can not know beforehand which topics will be raised or (sic!) what a c= ertain topic will shift into.

Ideally, we&#= 39;d want a tree-like structure=C2=A0
1. like commenting system a= t jbovlaste.lojban.org or= =C2=A0
2. like when one creates new threads by changing topics of= email messages and other people replying to particular messages. Not chani= ng the topic of en email message equals to continuing the thread, changing = the topic means opening a new thread.



(we may even consider a hypergraph system like https://github.com/woost/wust but= it could be an overkill)


=C2= =A0
I don't know what Discord permission is needed to be able to create new #-categories but I suppose it is possible to give all the members this power somehow.


Gleki Arxokuna wrote:
Among self-hosted ones
Mattermost supports threads (Mattermost can be installed e.g. via https://github.com/mozilla/mattermost-heroku/).
Rocket.Chats do not support threads:=C2=A0https://github.com/RocketChat/Rocket.Chat/issues/1112

Self-hosting software seems to me like an overkill.

Also note that Slack retains not more than 10,000 messages in its free of charge plan.


2018-04-30 8:33 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks <curtis.w.franks@gmail.com>:
I prefer threads.

~~~ Curtis W. Franks

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018, 01:25 Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:


2018-04-30 4:43 GMT+03:00 Curtis Franks <curtis.w.franks@= gmail.com>:
According to this (=C2=A0https://feedback.discordapp.com/forums/326712-discord-dream-land/suggestions/15859336-threa= ded-text-chat ), which is not even a month old, it seems to be impossible. I see multiple other requests for the same feature going back several years, so it seems that either it is impossible or a decent fraction of the prospective Discord community does not know how to do it (of course, my search is going to bias my results).

I should add that I did not read the entire page all the way - just a few comments in order to make sure that no-one immediately told the original poster that threading is indeed possible. If someone did so later on, though, then I definitely missed it.


We then need to decide if we need threads that is whether we shall discuss several topics in parallel.
If some of us do then we need to think of software that supports it. As I said Slack does. Maybe other (or other self hosted) software can do that, idk.

=C2=A0


~~~ Curtis



3D"" Garanti sans v= irus. www.avast.com

_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org<= br> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members


_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org<= br> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members

_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http:= //mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members


_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http:= //mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members

_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-= members



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