Received: from localhost ([::1]:49034 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Yiiu0-0000IH-7b; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 05:28:16 -0700 Received: from mail-wg0-f49.google.com ([74.125.82.49]:35095) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Yiitt-0000I8-85 for llg-members@lojban.org; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 05:28:14 -0700 Received: by wgyo15 with SMTP id o15so79011459wgy.2 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 05:28:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=aJ0gaAikbNkXWcAQ+RpTLDx0zzvreVeDgRTXsTQ3d2s=; b=PVTJ7RPdeZtffcT7aQ+hs5dQ37NEqWd3x2DolM4aNlHneq41EZLfcoRy4G8LiOYjzo FE4KQsHpyeP2TNaWHAtnWUjMDQw38t4UGk91KBe06HNjfmwyo+apOaC3/yfsrj5moXx1 QtOvW45smctt7o+Ri3hAmrWcRN0wPDCiHJ2ILfrXwyC9Gx5F4DN1r052Qz01c2mKw0Mb ViYe9aUw09tJFjN220/0XdhnD+Mb3yCRBjeeRdmHmUjEhfRRlflNsD7PLmhQUxMop18W lGKArEqe7HphPY2t3z0GDNg7emUeb56iAv961i0oHOkuLZ/Mx2lvb2lBhCaevaYLJ4Wd /H1Q== X-Received: by 10.194.88.131 with SMTP id bg3mr61304898wjb.119.1429187282288; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 05:28:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.240.197 with HTTP; Thu, 16 Apr 2015 05:27:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5502321A.2050208@lojban.org> <551ADCFF.20709@lojban.org> <552CA608.50200@lojban.org> <552D0CC2.7080502@selpahi.de> <552DA91A.8090207@lojban.org> From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2015 15:27:41 +0300 Message-ID: To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- Subject: Re: [Llg-members] New Business: other topics X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8685420707230614615==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============8685420707230614615== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e010d849e4773370513d69856 --089e010d849e4773370513d69856 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 2015-04-16 15:12 GMT+03:00 And Rosta : > > > On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Gleki Arxokuna < > gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>> What has been proposed by far were indeed rivals to Lojban not better >> than it. Although of course one might say "I don't like phonotactics" or "I >> don't like the abundance of sound {x} in Lojban". Creating a >> Lojban2NewLoglang converter would be trivial as I showed with Lojban <=> >> TLI Loglan converter. >> >> The point is that all rival projects die. They never accumulate enough >> mass to continue to be alive. This even happened to TLI Loglan itself. >> > > Your criterion for rivalhood, for superiority and for livingness, namely > having a community of speakers, is irrelevant to the scholarly purposes I > had in mind, prompted by the LLG's mission statement. > > While it would also be of great service to the world to have an > as-fit-for-purpose-as-possible loglang that is actually used by everyone > who has use for a loglang, I think it would be counterproductive to try to > bring a new loglang 'to life' before there are reasonable grounds for > thinking it is as-fit-for-purpose-as-possible. > What is a language if not something used? How to test it if not by using it to transfer information between people? If this doesn't happen then you only have a sketch of a language and never it can be understood from its design if it can be used or not until you enter data into it. > > > --And. > > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > > --089e010d849e4773370513d69856 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2015-04-16 15:12 GMT+03:00 And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>:


On Thu, Apr 16= , 2015 at 9:08 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com= > wrote:


What has been proposed by far were indeed rivals to Lojban n= ot better than it. Although of course one might say "I don't like = phonotactics" or "I don't like the abundance of sound {x} in = Lojban". Creating a Lojban2NewLoglang converter would be trivial as I = showed with Lojban <=3D> TLI Loglan converter.

The point is that all rival projects die. They never accumulate enough m= ass to continue to be alive. This even happened to TLI Loglan itself.
=

Your criterion fo= r rivalhood, for superiority and for livingness, namely having a community = of speakers, is irrelevant to the scholarly purposes I had in mind, prompte= d by the LLG's mission statement.=C2=A0

While = it would also be of great service to the world to have an as-fit-for-purpos= e-as-possible loglang that is actually used by everyone who has use for a l= oglang, I think it would be counterproductive to try to bring a new loglang= 'to life' before there are reasonable grounds for thinking it is a= s-fit-for-purpose-as-possible.

What is a language if not something used? How to= test it if not by using it to transfer information between people?
If this doesn't happen then you only have a sketch of a language and= never it can be understood from its design if it can be used or not until = you enter data into it.


=C2=A0--And.=

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