Received: from localhost ([::1]:48400 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1Z2BG1-0001af-V0; Mon, 08 Jun 2015 21:35:26 -0700 Received: from mail-vn0-f53.google.com ([209.85.216.53]:46844) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1Z2BFw-0001aM-4p for llg-members@lojban.org; Mon, 08 Jun 2015 21:35:24 -0700 Received: by vnbf7 with SMTP id f7so1101742vnb.13 for ; Mon, 08 Jun 2015 21:35:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type; bh=JMQ4HAgPoOiGlrM0+da5fyiUQcCg7G/zubZWA1Eo+kA=; b=hzw2Ed7TTBRE4WFcw1p1H7lxz5LKTy2AE5sv3Itp3eSpXmAraPMQwONRcfu05f9Yni JU+2Newckk/3AQYq5Yr5TJza9+Vf4i91d4Joyqh+a4Rau0VElCzHL+C+CvBK4vmNcFDT bKhEWsisGP/U/ocgqnBC3nn91OOrDxg4QawJED3DaOScp1VBLxsbX+Kffz0oGO2m/ia1 U4y9Eqm1WqO3S3uZSAuSczPb5/+ogEUVFRg8MBH0ToVCoJSlPH4CXWagZMwhYWwu4zmD IYcraqAaHTewzUiBKwSzStzUKZg7Twv+XgIHuuUJA8FZ7yvwJhNKBBAFvO7/yLQo0ZGq WsUw== X-Received: by 10.52.122.52 with SMTP id lp20mr38297749vdb.64.1433824513748; Mon, 08 Jun 2015 21:35:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Alexs-MacBook-Air-2.local (c-69-249-31-89.hsd1.pa.comcast.net. [69.249.31.89]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id x11sm5592534vds.25.2015.06.08.21.35.11 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 08 Jun 2015 21:35:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2015 00:35:11 -0400 From: Alex Burka To: llg-members@lojban.org Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <55763DBE.303@lojban.org> References: <55763DBE.303@lojban.org> X-Mailer: Airmail Beta (308) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_bar: - Subject: Re: [Llg-members] paedagogics: about techniques of passive accumulation of Lojban X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============7858329478866190407==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============7858329478866190407== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="55766cff_56481901_146" --55766cff_56481901_146 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On June 8, 2015 at 9:13:53 PM, Bob LeChevalier (lojbab=40lojban.org) wrot= e: Probably better if sent (also) to the main list, since it is a topic=C2=A0= that non-members might have opinions/willingness to help=C2=A0 On 6/7/2015 1:13 PM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:=C2=A0 > Since =22learn grammar=22 methods are showing their failure to teach Lo= jban=C2=A0 > over and over again (not absolutely but significantly) a number of step= s=C2=A0 > have been taken lately to combat them.=C2=A0 Please identify what constitutes a =22learn grammar=22 method, as opposed= =C2=A0 to, say, using CLL and/or Lojban =46or Beginners=3F Is a textbook=C2=A0 needed/useful with a substantially different approach, and how should it=C2= =A0 differ=3F=C2=A0 I think (could be wrong) that =22learn grammar=22 methods refer to the le= ssons we have -- CLL, L4B, Wave Lessons, La Bangu etc are all =22grammar-= first=22 as opposed to immersion a la Duolingo or Rosetta Stone. In what way can we tell that =22learn grammar=22 methods are =22showing t= heir=C2=A0 failure=22=3F=C2=A0 Well, we don't rule the world yet, .u'i Obviously, the =22grammar-first=22 learning methods that we have are not = exactly =5Ffailing=5F, seeing as people are learning the language. But th= ere may be a better way. In what way(s) does the NooLearn project address or fail to address=C2=A0= these issues=3F Could they incorporate aspects of your proposed Pimsleur=C2= =A0 method in their project.=C2=A0 Is there really all that much advantage to focus a learning method on=C2=A0= the audio components, given that a huge percentage of the=C2=A0 Lojban-interested community is solely interested in reading/writing the=C2= =A0 language, since they are unlikely to actually use the language in=C2=A0 everyday life (as opposed to in specially arranged sessions on Skype)=3F=C2= =A0 This sounds like a conjecture, and may or may not currently be accurate. = But it's also a self-fulfilling prophecy. Plus, for one example, there is= a growing corpus of Lojban music and videos on Youtube. lojbab=C2=A0 =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=C2=A0 Llg-members mailing list=C2=A0 Llg-members=40lojban.org=C2=A0 http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members=C2=A0 --55766cff_56481901_146 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline