Received: from localhost ([::1]:50596 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1av5Aq-0000fr-EJ; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 08:45:16 -0700 Received: from mail-vk0-f49.google.com ([209.85.213.49]:35534) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1av5Ak-0000fc-8f for llg-members@lojban.org; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 08:45:14 -0700 Received: by mail-vk0-f49.google.com with SMTP id u23so21461574vkb.2 for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 08:45:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=Di9upxqeoYCIEGtP9pDRlYw4C97T+FdtcHvVgJwlBnc=; b=FETcV83XR8XW3rDIOclYQCd+ro+Gw8nWcvtsZ+fOuaHtw25UsJvGMSF2hQ963JT5RB SGrUTKprcr1z7kT6l+Wsr+6GxZueojIGOw43jDulS8rowjI9GNz3zTmJu7tNCohUXEqN LZGUstYoYa3iMq6+QWhUGYtumHcepE5FrYyTuJSLATguQIAp20Cdfe5M/5baIq7XsORP ReLdgVcfuxH1AsDNXXD1D3FDw9va4iTXFK+GA6Yd+wH0IxoL+PjCroBsnceWxp17xcRU w1OnushrpH0ocrjPGxhqdUg2KB9okouzpoyPSAyM+y/bxUeRlZGVEAZ3yXvPwqKdzSYo Hzxw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to; bh=Di9upxqeoYCIEGtP9pDRlYw4C97T+FdtcHvVgJwlBnc=; b=MD/KIyuw9BVbg+41Y+OaynsDFVD+JDP+z7A7/EJBPZ2pm7NmfS/pGyeSxzHVT7uSg9 OwD428uMh2rkNGbNADQfWIE4DH0L+wm712pCjWtcuq6TVx7q0XhWMuPTLUp/0rdVbYwT ISHX4hsC8dWkaLDzwYMFmDPFaswhwdxy/abA6GVfqscaCInxPEIEYfyJ2IFe3pbST6gd 2LFcSIlIO+kIDzmZ/i6M/SFCjcI0k56BozsfkWrm7naNSXsHXycbrg/HhWO59VPtIKvG Pi6RJW3YRXaP3BlmJEBE1qc2ISKSSLJpBFJ6qUkh9mGTo7+RuINRov+JtLl+nJ+Eu1Ic jzzA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FWtSrI9ahenpSPl+by4iWGQ9Rl42UxlT0ayjeBjchiqgU0KJr0UmXowXv/vln5OT7nnaqMN/F75MANlcg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.31.156.144 with SMTP id f138mr1456129vke.20.1461685504164; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 08:45:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.176.66.134 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 08:45:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.176.66.134 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Apr 2016 08:45:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <14B83AD6-319C-4DBF-A28C-6A172D84BE52@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2016 11:45:04 -0400 Message-ID: From: Curtis Franks To: llg-members@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- Subject: Re: [Llg-members] IRC vs Email Meetings X-BeenThere: llg-members@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: llg-members@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============8277310115359190106==" Errors-To: llg-members-bounces@lojban.org --===============8277310115359190106== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1140ff1e3fc6da0531652d7b --001a1140ff1e3fc6da0531652d7b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think that some blend would be useful. Working out a lot of kinks informally would be nice. I do not really care how we do it, so long as there is sufficient time for both the informal and formal stages, possibly with iterations. On Apr 26, 2016 04:05, "Gleki Arxokuna" wrote: > > > 2016-04-26 11:01 GMT+03:00 And Rosta : > >> The chair can shepherd the meeting along, setting deadlines, and so >> forth, but as I said, it's an onerous job. If the chair can execute that >> taxing job well, then the meeting runs well. But it's a really big ask o= f >> the chair. >> >> However, as a way to ease the burden, what about having, by email, a >> longer period of informal discussion, followed by, still by email, the >> formal meeting operating to a strictish schedule, where there is underst= ood >> to be a social obligation on LLG members not to move out of the blue or >> discuss at the formal meeting anything that could have been discussed at >> the informal stage, so at the formal meeting one would only discuss, say= , >> the ramifications of votes whose outcomes were not reasonably predictabl= e >> in advance of the meeting? To make things even simpler, schedule the for= mal >> meetings a year in advance, and just leave it to members to make sure >> they've done all necessary discussion in time for the meeting. >> > > I complain only that people are silent for some period and then suddenly > maybe "recall" a meeting is going on and start commenting. > > Adding a real time discussion can make the meeting going faster. Logs of > IRC meetings can help everyone to understand what was discussed, what was > missed. For 90% of the members there will be nothing more to say, only to > vote what was already agreed upon in an IRC meeting. > > > >> >> --And. >> >> On 26 April 2016 at 08:36, Riley Martinez-Lynch >> wrote: >> >>> I don=E2=80=99t think it is fair to fault the chair of the meeting for = what is >>> cumbersome about the format. A meeting that lasts for months is difficu= lt >>> to plan around. It can heat up unexpectedly, with votes called suddenly= , or >>> lose people=E2=80=99s attention over time. Vacations, illness, seasonal= work >>> demands: The longer the meeting goes, the greater the chances of >>> conflicting commitments. That seems to me a function of time, independe= nt >>> of the style of the chair. >>> >>> Long email threads are also difficult to follow. Several times >>> throughout this meeting I have gone digging through months of messages = to >>> answer questions such as, was this report given, was this motion second= ed, >>> did this motion pass, etc. >>> >>> I think it=E2=80=99s good that the matters that we discuss are discusse= d at >>> length. But I continue to question whether it is optimal to do it all i= n >>> the on-the-record and actionable context of the member=E2=80=99s meetin= g. I accept >>> that this is a minority opinion. >>> >>> =E2=80=94Riley no=E2=80=99u la mukti >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Llg-members mailing list >>> Llg-members@lojban.org >>> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Llg-members mailing list >> Llg-members@lojban.org >> http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Llg-members mailing list > Llg-members@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-members > > --001a1140ff1e3fc6da0531652d7b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I think that some blend would be useful. Working out a lot o= f kinks informally would be nice. I do not really care how we do it, so lon= g as there is sufficient time for both the informal and formal stages, poss= ibly with iterations.

On Apr 26, 2016 04:05, "Gleki Arxokuna"= ; <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.= com> wrote:
<= div dir=3D"ltr">

2016-04-26 11:01 GMT+03:00 And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>:
The chair can sheph= erd the meeting along, setting deadlines, and so forth, but as I said, it&#= 39;s an onerous job. If the chair can execute that taxing job well, then th= e meeting runs well. But it's a really big ask of the chair.

However, as a way to ease the burden, what about having, by email,= a longer period of informal discussion, followed by, still by email, the f= ormal meeting operating to a strictish schedule, where there is understood = to be a social obligation on LLG members not to move out of the blue or dis= cuss at the formal meeting anything that could have been discussed at the i= nformal stage, so at the formal meeting one would only discuss, say, the ra= mifications of votes whose outcomes were not reasonably predictable in adva= nce of the meeting? To make things even simpler, schedule the formal meetin= gs a year in advance, and just leave it to members to make sure they've= done all necessary discussion in time for the meeting.

I complain only that people are silent for some pe= riod and then suddenly maybe "recall" a meeting is going on and s= tart commenting.

Adding a real time discussion can= make the meeting going faster. Logs of IRC meetings can help everyone to u= nderstand what was discussed, what was missed. For 90% of the members there= will be nothing more to say, only to vote what was already agreed upon in = an IRC meeting.

=C2=A0

--And.

<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 26 April 2016 at 08:36, Riley Martinez-Lynch <= span dir=3D"ltr"><shunpiker@gmail.com> wrote:
I don=E2=80=99t think it is fair to fault the chair of the meeting for = what is cumbersome about the format. A meeting that lasts for months is dif= ficult to plan around. It can heat up unexpectedly, with votes called sudde= nly, or lose people=E2=80=99s attention over time. Vacations, illness, seas= onal work demands: The longer the meeting goes, the greater the chances of = conflicting commitments. That seems to me a function of time, independent o= f the style of the chair.

Long email threads are also difficult to follow. Several times throughout t= his meeting I have gone digging through months of messages to answer questi= ons such as, was this report given, was this motion seconded, did this moti= on pass, etc.

I think it=E2=80=99s good that the matters that we discuss are discussed at= length. But I continue to question whether it is optimal to do it all in t= he on-the-record and actionable context of the member=E2=80=99s meeting. I = accept that this is a minority opinion.

=E2=80=94Riley no=E2=80=99u la mukti
_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-membe= rs


_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@loj= ban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-membe= rs



_______________________________________________
Llg-members mailing list
Llg-members@lojban.org
http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/llg-membe= rs

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