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From: guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 May 2016 13:40:15 +0000
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To: llg-members@lojban.org
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Subject: Re: [Llg-members] Violation of copyright
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2016-05-12 12:24 GMT+00:00 Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>:
>
>
> 2016-05-12 15:15 GMT+03:00 guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com>:
>>
>>
>> Originally, each tiki-based page had clear history of edition on the
>> page itself, and all visitors had access to the information of the
>> creator and editors of the page. It was very helpful for visitors who
>> want to know the responsibility of every part of the pages. I regret
>> that the whole history vanished when the tiki pages were copied to
>> mediawiki, though I understand it was a result of a technical issue.
>
>
> So now we need to tag all the pages, even the tiki ones, right?
>

No. A tag is required for personal original research pages, not for
information pages like news, lists of lojbanic creations and so on.

>>
>>
>> On the other hand, Gleki's original research pages were created on
>> mediawiki from scratch. As we know anonymous visitors cannot view the
>> history of each page,
>
>
> Technically they can:
> https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Lojban&action=history
>
> The button was hidden for anonymous users to prevent cluttering of user
> interface.
>

I know. That fact does not contradict my view that anonymous visitors
cannot view the history of each page, because they don't have the link
to the history.

>
>>
>> Gleki could be more carful to include
>> information about the responsibility on each page of his original
>> research, but he didn't.
>
>
> I did. Pages imported from the tiki were initially marked as "jbocre: " in
> their name. It was planned to inject a notice at the top of each page that
> it's not official but since nobody supported that I renamed them back to
> no-prefix ones.
>

No, you seem to misunderstand. I meant Gleki did not include
information about the responsibility on each page of Gleki's original
research, not tiki's.


>
> So
> 1. Either we can show "History" button back.
> 2. Or we can add a "It's not official" warning to every page in "Main"
> namespace. But then we need Someone to remove that message from pages that
> don't need it.
>

1 is better than the current state, but is not a full solution of the
problem because the pages copied from tiki have lost the whole history
information.
2 is not required as I explained above. I require a tag for only
personal original research, not for news or information of lojbanic
creations.


2016-05-12 12:55 GMT+00:00 John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org>:
> guskant scripsit:
>
>> As for the particular case of "Le Petit Prince", the copyright has
>> expired in most countries in the world except France, where a special
>> law is applied to "morts pour la France", and the US, where copyright
>> renewal is applied. I don't know if "le cmalu noltru" page on the
>> official website must reject access from those two countries, or must
>> move the content to a server in another country.
>
> This is becoming absurd.  Copyright is a civil matter when there is no
> commercial advantage, and the estate surely has better things to do
> than (pur)sue people for making translations into an obscure language
> that almost no one speaks and giving them away for free.  On the
> other hand, we should not approach the estate for permission, because
> author's estates almost always say "No" (in my experience) if there
> is no money in it.  The same applies to the agents of living authors.
>
> We should leave things as they are.
>

I agree that such a copyright matter is becoming absurd, though I
don't think the official body should take any responsibility on
people's creative works including translations in any case. Putting
the works by people on the official website may bring any trouble to
the official body. It would be safer to move the creative works to
somewhere out of the official website.

mi'e la guskant

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