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Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2010 14:11:05 -0300
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Subject: Re: [bpfk] lololol whole section missing?
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On Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Robin Lee Powell
<rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org> wrote:
> In case the implicit question wasn't obvious: =A0Should I put this
> back in? =A0Same with the other one.

I think the list of conflicting consonants should be there, since it's
an important part of the gismu creation algorithm.

mu'o mi'e xorxes


>
> -Robin
>
> On Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 08:29:20AM -0800, Robin Lee Powell wrote:
>> Not sure how I missed this on the last run, but the Red Book has:
>>
>> - --------------------------
>>
>> <dt>4) =A0<dd>Any gismu forms that conflicted with existing gismu were r=
emoved. Obviously, being identical with an existing gismu cons
>> titutes a conflict. In addition, a proposed gismu that was identical to =
an existing gismu except for the final vowel was considered
>> a conflict, since two such gismu would have identical 4-letter rafsi.
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </dl>
>> <dl compact><p><p><cx "gismu, too-similar"> =A0XE "gismu: too-similar" =
=A0 <cx "gismu: creation, proscribed gismu pairs"> =A0XE "gismu: cr
>> eation, proscribed gismu pairs"
>> <dt><dd>More subtly: If the proposed gismu was identical to an existing =
gismu except for a single consonant, and the consonant was "
>> too similar=94 based on the following table, then the proposed gismu was=
 rejected.
>> <p><p>
>> <dt> =A0 =A0<dd>proposed gismu =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 existing =
gismu
>> <p><p>
>> <dt> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0<dd>b =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 p,=
 v
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 c =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 j, s
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 d =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 t
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 f =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 p, v
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 g =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 k, x
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 j =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 c, z
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 k =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 g, x
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 l =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 r
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 m =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 n
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 n =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 m
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 p =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 b, f
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 r =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 l
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 s =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 c, z
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 t =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 d
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 v =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 b, f
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 x =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 g, k
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 z =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =
=A0 =A0 j, s
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </dl>
>> <p><p> =A0See <a href=3D#s4>Section 4 </a>for an example.
>> <p>
>> <dl compact><p>
>> <cx "gismu creation, and transcription blunders"> =A0XE "gismu: creation=
, and transcription blunders"
>> <dt>5) =A0<dd>The gismu form with the highest score usually became the a=
ctual gismu. Sometimes a lower-scoring form was used to provid
>> e a better rafsi. A few gismu were changed in error as a result of trans=
cription blunders (for example, the gismu "gismu=94 should hav
>> e been "gicmu=94, but it's too late to fix it now).
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </dl>
>> <p><cx "gismu, source-language weights for"> =A0XE "gismu: source-langua=
ge weights for" =A0 The language weights used to make most of th
>> e gismu were as follows:
>> <p>
>> <pre> =A0 Chinese 0.36
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 English 0.21
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Hindi =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 0.16
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Spanish 0.11
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Russian 0.09
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Arabic =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A00.07
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </pre>reflecting 1985 number-of-speakers=
 data. A few gismu were made much later <dl compact><p>
>> <dt>using updated weights: =A0 =A0 =A0<dd>
>> <p><p>
>> <dt> =A0 =A0<dd>Chinese =A0 =A0 0.347
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Hindi =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 0.196
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 English 0.160
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Spanish 0.123
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Russian 0.089
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Arabic =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A00.085
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </dl>
>> <p>(English and Hindi switched places due to demographic changes.)
>> <p>
>> Note that the stressed vowel of the gismu was considered sufficiently di=
stinctive that two or more gismu may differ only in this vowel; as an extre=
me example, "bradi=94, "bredi=94, "bridi=94, and "brodi=94 (but fortunately=
 not "brudi=94) are all existing gismu.
>>
>> - --------------------------
>>
>> Now, dag-cll in the same place:
>>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 <para>Any gismu forms that conflicted with existing =
gismu were removed. Obviously, being identical with an existing gismu const=
itutes a conflict. In addition, a proposed gismu that was identical to an e=
xisting gismu except for the final vowel was considered a conflict, since t=
wo such gismu would have identical 4-letter rafsi.</para>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </listitem>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 </varlistentry>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 <varlistentry>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 <term>5)</term>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 <listitem>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 <para>The gismu form with the highest score usually =
became the actual gismu. Sometimes a lower-scoring form was used to provide=
 a better rafsi. A few gismu were changed in error as a result of transcrip=
tion blunders (for example, the gismu
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 <quote>gismu</quote> should have been
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 <quote>gicmu</quote>, but it's too late to fix it no=
w).</para>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 </listitem>
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 </varlistentry>
>> =A0 =A0 </variablelist>
>> =A0 =A0 <para>Note that the stressed vowel of the gismu was considered s=
ufficiently distinctive that two or more gismu may differ only in this vowe=
l; as an extreme example,
>>
>> - --------------------------
>>
>> You'll notice that this is just a teensy-weensy difference, and that
>> dag-cll is Rather Shorter.
>>
>> What do I do with this?
>>
>> -Robin
>>
>> --
>> http://singinst.org/ : =A0Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
>> Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
>> is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
>> is "na nei". =A0 My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/
>>
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>>
>
> --
> http://singinst.org/ : =A0Our last, best hope for a fantastic future.
> Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot
> is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false"
> is "na nei". =A0 My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/
>
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