Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P5kzE-0001Pf-Lt; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 12:58:16 -0700 Received: by wwe15 with SMTP id 15sf1155569wwe.16 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 12:58:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received:received-spf:received:received:mime-version :received:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=KzfbU4rYzUNZph2BndJ9/S8vBICaGpIHgzNrl/F3wGc=; b=3kW6gI8dYc4nBm6Q23ouzxWgiRRPweHPXigPhDcRuYL+uNdZTt6KLD2ft7G+EZ4yTm Qms91m2tcCmhiutIxEhZTGO+JUcQtDOBlZAMqaoahHQD303JUZK/5rMWdr7RBHBUea+2 MoRr1QrOMdBcs4sZBLpTe7E9Tb7oFN48yjZHo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=I6lZYg3X+pZlQZs9qvbi76U3sGwz5dB1K4fVpwnQljnwit+rI3gASO0Ca+8aQ1P9aC kMl05/aIofVDxOb0xPz/uq3VCLlFMaHskWMO/49MybkyexBKWaQ7IgBr4d00GCBsxErR kp47rmyQMvuoPPU/SSjECv/kAGMMG2scuGr7c= Received: by 10.216.237.9 with SMTP id x9mr1075555weq.11.1286913479658; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 12:57:59 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.39.10 with SMTP id d10ls116243wbe.2.p; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 12:57:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.152.196 with SMTP id h4mr353159wbw.21.1286913478681; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 12:57:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.84.215 with SMTP id k23mr137711bkl.4.1286904032110; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 10:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.84.215 with SMTP id k23mr137710bkl.4.1286904031666; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 10:20:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f42.google.com (mail-fx0-f42.google.com [209.85.161.42]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id z17si4868212bkb.3.2010.10.12.10.20.30; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 10:20:30 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of adamlopresto@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.42 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.42; Received: by mail-fx0-f42.google.com with SMTP id 5so1832095fxm.1 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 10:20:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.239.140.2 with SMTP id v2mr547001hbv.98.1286904030322; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 10:20:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.239.170.139 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 10:20:10 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Adam Lopresto Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 12:20:10 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bpfk] Re: {.i} and {ni'o}, continuation or new jufra To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: adamlopresto@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of adamlopresto@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=adamlopresto@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364d31b79666b604926eb1d4 Content-Length: 5992 --0016364d31b79666b604926eb1d4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Long, long conversation here. What follows is a proposal, not a description of the current state of affairs. i believe that it is backwards compatible with most uses, although possibly not all edge cases. A "text" is everything produced by the current rule named "text" in the formal grammar. This is a single chunk of input, and can be fed to a parser by itself. It has an elidible terminator ({fa'u}) to explicitly indicate where it ends. It also has a new initiator to explicitly mark the beginning of parseable text. I'll use {fa'ai}, mnemonic {cfari}, but I don't care what word it is. In the end, it may end up analyzed out, but for now it's helpful to have it. {fa'ai} is of its own selma'o. A "conversation" is a sequence of zero or more texts, optionally with non-lojban garbage between them. There is also a new continuation word (tentatively {di'ai}, since that's what was used earlier) of its own selma'o. if it occurs at the beginning of a text (after optional {fa'ai}), we treat the text as a continuation of the preceding text (ignoring everything between them). "conversation" is the new top-level rule in the parser. it gracefully degrades to just a single text. So given an exchange in IRC A: do klama ma B: lo zarci We can either parse each line completely independently, or we can make our logs in a parseable format thus: A: fa'ai do klama ma fa'o B: fa'ai lo zarci fa'o That entire block is a single lojban conversation, and can be parsed. Potential issues: The conversation rule should ignore leading garbage before the first {fa'ai}, but {fa'ai} should be optional. This may mean that we misparse text or parse what we shouldn't, only to throw it away. I don't know whether that's workable or not, but it seems similar to issues {su} has. This view holds with the idea that continuations are always explicit. If you want a new text to be treated as part of an old text, start it with {di'ai}. If you want to be explicit that it is *not* part of the preceding text, {fa'ai} will do that. Otherwise, it will implicitly be a new text, but if context is strong enough people may ignore that for practical reasons. How these work with other Magic Words is left as an exercise for someone else, for now. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BPFK" group. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list?hl=en. --0016364d31b79666b604926eb1d4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Long, long conversation here.

What follows is a proposal= , not a description of the current state of affairs. i believe that it is b= ackwards compatible with most uses, although possibly not all edge cases.

A "text" is everything produced by the curren= t rule named "text" in the formal grammar. This is a single chunk= of input, and can be fed to a parser by itself. It has an elidible termina= tor ({fa'u}) to explicitly indicate where it ends. It also has a new in= itiator to explicitly mark the beginning of parseable text. I'll use {f= a'ai}, mnemonic {cfari}, but I don't care what word it is. In the e= nd, it may end up analyzed out, but for now it's helpful to have it. {f= a'ai} is of its own selma'o.

A "conversation" is a sequence of zero or mor= e texts, optionally with non-lojban garbage between them.=A0

=
There is also a new continuation word (tentatively {di'ai}, = since that's what was used earlier) of its own selma'o. if it occur= s at the beginning of a text (after optional {fa'ai}), we treat the tex= t as a continuation of the preceding text (ignoring everything between them= ). =A0

"conversation" is the new top-level rule in t= he parser. it gracefully degrades to just a single text.

So given an exchange in IRC

A: do klama ma<= /div>
B: lo zarci

We can either parse each line com= pletely independently, or we can make our logs in a parseable format thus:<= /div>

A: fa'ai do klama ma fa'o
B: fa&= #39;ai lo zarci fa'o

That entire block is a single lojban conversation, and = can be parsed.

Potential issues:

The conversation rule should ignore leading garbage before the firs= t {fa'ai}, but {fa'ai} should be optional. This may mean that we mi= sparse text or parse what we shouldn't, only to throw it away. I don= 9;t know whether that's workable or not, but it seems similar to issues= {su} has.

This view holds with the idea that continuations are al= ways explicit. If you want a new text to be treated as part of an old text,= start it with {di'ai}. If you want to be explicit that it is *not* par= t of the preceding text, {fa'ai} will do that. Otherwise, it will impli= citly be a new text, but if context is strong enough people may ignore that= for practical reasons.

How these work with other Magic Words is left as an exe= rcise for someone else, for now.=A0

--
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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-l= ist?hl=3Den.
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