<anchor xml:id=3D"c12e2d1"/>

Date: Fri May 6 14:07:33 2011 -0700 Fixed the examples. diff --git a/todocbook/12.xml b/todocbook/12.xml index e37dc4b..1bbb5fa 100644 --- a/todocbook/12.xml +++ b/todocbook/12.xml @@ -72,21 +72,21 @@ tanrupurpose wine-dark sea The purpose of a tanru is = to join concepts together without necessarily focusing on the exact meaning= of the seltau. For example, in the=20 Iliad, the poet talks about=20 the wine-dark sea, in which=20 =20 wine is a seltau relative to=20 dark, and the pair of words is a seltau relative to=20 sea. We're talking about the sea, not about wine or col= or. The other words are there to paint a scene in the listener's mind, in w= hich the real action will occur, and to evoke relations to other sagas of t= he time similarly describing the sea. Logical inferences about wine or colo= r will be rejected as irrelevant. =20 =20 =20 -goer-houseexample +goer-houseexampl= e =20 As a simple example, consider the rather non-obvious tanru=20 klama zdani, or=20 goer-house. The gismu=20 =20 zdani has two places: <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e2d1"/> @@ -101,21 +101,21 @@ x1 goes to destination x2 from origin point x3 via= route x4 using means x5 The tanru=20 klama zdani will also have two places, na= mely those of=20 zdani. Since a=20 klama zdani is a type of=20 zdani, we can assume that all goer-houses – whate= ver they may be – are also houses. =20 =20 -dog houseexample +dog houseexample= =20 tanru= possible meanings of fleas But is knowing the places of t= he tertau everything that is needed to understand the meaning of a tanru? N= o. To see why, let us switch to a less unlikely tanru:=20 gerku zdani, literally=20 dog house. A tanru expresses a very loose relation: a= =20 =20 gerku zdani is a house that has something= to do with some dog or dogs. What the precise relation might be is left un= stated. Thus, the meaning of=20 lo gerku zdani can include all of the fol= lowing: houses occupied by dogs, houses shaped by dogs, dogs which are also= houses (e.g. houses for fleas), houses named after dogs, and so on. All th= at is essential is that the place structure of=20 =20 zdani continues to apply. =20 @@ -127,37 +127,37 @@ zdani and some place of=20 gerku. It doesn't matter which places, because if there= 's a relationship between some place of=20 zdani and any place of=20 gerku, then that relationship can be compounded with th= e relationship between the places of=20 gerku- namely,=20 gerku itself – to reach any of the other=20 gerku places. Thus, if the relationship turns out to be= between z2 and g2, we can still state r in terms of z1 and g1:=20 the relationship involves the dog g1, whose breed has to do wit= h the occupant of the house z1. =20 =20 -Bill Clintonexample =20 Doubtless to the relief of the reader, here's an illustration. We want to= find out whether the White House (the one in which the U. S. President liv= es, that is) counts as a=20 gerku zdani. We go through the five varia= bles. The White House is the z1. It houses Bill Clinton as z2, as of this w= riting, so it counts as a=20 =20 zdani. Let's take a dog – say, Spot (g1). Spot ha= s to have a breed; let's say it's a Saint Bernard (g2). Now, the White Hous= e counts as a=20 gerku zdani if there is any relationship = (r) at all between the White House and Spot. (We'll choose the g1 and z1 pl= aces to relate by r; we could have chosen any other pair of places, and sim= ply gotten a different relationship.) Chelsea Clinton The sky is the limit for r; it can be as complicated a= s=20 The other day, g1 (Spot) chased Socks, who is owned by Chelsea = Clinton, who is the daughter of Bill Clinton, who lives in z1 (the White Ho= use) or even worse. If no such r can be found, well, you take anoth= er dog, and keep going until no more dogs can be found. Only then can we sa= y that the White House cannot fit into the first place of=20 =20 =20 gerku zdani. As we have seen, no less than five elements are involved in the = definition of=20 gerku zdani: the house, the house dweller= , the dog, the dog breed (everywhere a dog goes in Lojban, a dog breed foll= ows), and the relationship between the house and the dog. Since tanru are e= xplicitly ambiguous in Lojban, the relationship r cannot be expressed withi= n a tanru (if it could, it wouldn't be a tanru any more!) All the other pla= ces, however, can be expressed – thus: <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e2d3"/> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>Bill Clinton</primary><second= ary>example</secondary></indexterm>

la blabi zdani cu gerku be fa la spot. bei la sankt. berNARD.= be'o zdani la bil. klinton. The White House is-a-dog (namely Spot of-breed Saint Bernar= d) type-of-house-for Bill Clinton. =20

derogatory terms<= /primary> Not the most elegant sentence ever written in either = Lojban or English. Yet if there is any relation at all between Spot and the= White House,=20 is arguably true. If we con= centrate on just one type of relation in interpreting the tanru=20 gerku zdani, then the meaning of=20 @@ -193,25 +193,20 @@ gerku. We can proceed as follows: lujvo place struc= turenotation conventions (The = notation introduced casually in=20 will be useful in the rest = of this chapter. Rather than using the regular x1, x2, etc. to represent pl= aces, we'll use the first letter of the relevant gismu in place of the=20 x, or more than one letter where necessary to resolve a= mbiguities. Thus, z1 is the first place of=20 zdani, and g2 is the second place of=20 gerku.) lujvo place struc= tureexplicated walk-through <= indexterm type=3D"general-imported">new notation The place structure of=20 zdani is given as=20 , but is repeated here using= the new notation: =20 - =20 - -doghouseexample - - FIXME: TAG SPOT <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e3d1"/> z1 is a nest/house/lair/den of z2 The place structure of=20 gerku is: @@ -231,20 +226,21 @@ <example xml:id=3D"example-random-id-MnKf"> <title> <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e3d4"/> z1 is a house for dog g1 of breed g2<= /para> or more comprehensively <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e3d5"/> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>doghouse</primary><secondary>= example</secondary></indexterm> z1 is a house for dweller/dog z2=3Dg1 of breed g2<= /definition> Despite the apparently conclusive nature of=20 , our task is not yet done: = we still need to decide whether any of the remaining places should also be = eliminated, and what order the lujvo places should appear in. These concern= s will be addressed in the remainder of the chapter; but we are now equippe= d with the terminology needed for those discussions.

Selecting places lujvo place struc= turebasis of The set of places= of an ordinary lujvo are selected from the places of its component gismu. = More precisely, the places of such a lujvo are derived from the set of plac= es of the component gismu by eliminating unnecessary places, until just eno= ugh places remain to give an appropriate meaning to the lujvo. In general, = including a place makes the concept expressed by a lujvo more general; excl= uding a place makes the concept more specific, because omitting the place r= equires assuming a standard value or range of values for it. lujvo place struc= turerationale for standardization It would be possible to design the place structure of a lujvo from scra= tch, treating it as if it were a gismu, and working out what arguments cont= ribute to the notion to be expressed by the lujvo. There are two reasons ar= guing against doing so and in favor of the procedure detailed in this chapt= er. @@ -252,52 +248,51 @@ se jbopli or a=20 te klagau is. But this would mean that, r= ather than having to learn just the 1300-odd gismu place structures, a Lojb= anist would also have to learn myriads of lujvo place structures with littl= e or no apparent pattern or regularity to them. The purpose of the guidelin= es documented in this chapter is to apply regularity and to make it convent= ional wherever possible. The second reason is related to the first: if the veljvo of the = lujvo has not been properly selected, and the places for the lujvo are form= ulated from scratch, then there is a risk that some of the places formulate= d may not correspond to any of the places of the gismu used in the veljvo o= f the lujvo. If that is the case – that is to say, if the lujvo place= s are not a subset of the veljvo gismu places – then it will be very = difficult for the hearer or reader to understand what a particular place me= ans, and what it is doing in that particular lujvo. This is a topic that wi= ll be further discussed in=20 . However, second-guessing the place structure of the lujvo is use= ful in guiding the process of subsequently eliminating places from the velj= vo. If the Lojbanist has an idea of what the final place structure should l= ook like, he or she should be able to pick an appropriate veljvo to begin w= ith, in order to express the idea, and then to decide which places are rele= vant or not relevant to expressing that idea.

Symmetrical and asymmetrical lujvo =20 =20 -great soldierexample =20 lujvo place structurewhen first places redundant veljvosymmetri= cal = lujvosymmetrical A common patt= ern, perhaps the most common pattern, of lujvo-making creates what is calle= d a=20 symmetrical lujvo. A symmetrical lujvo is one based on = a tanru interpretation such that the first place of the seltau is equivalen= t to the first place of the tertau: each component of the tanru characteriz= es the same object. As an illustration of this, consider the lujvo=20 balsoi: it is intended to mean=20 both great and a soldier- that is,=20 great soldier, which is the interpretation we would ten= d to give its veljvo,=20 =20 banli sonci. The underlying gismu place s= tructures are: <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e5d1"/> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>great soldier</primary><secon= dary>example</secondary></indexterm> banli: b1 is great in property b2 = by standard b3 sonci: s1 is a soldier of army s2<= /definition> In this case the s1 place of=20 sonci is redundant, since it is equivalent to the b1 pl= ace of=20 banli. Therefore the place structure of=20 balsoi need not include places for both s= 1 and b1, as they refer to the same thing. So the place structure of=20 balsoi is at most =20 <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e5d2"/> b1=3Ds1 is a great soldier of army s2 in property = b2 by standard b3 =20 =20 =20 -listen attentively= example =20 lujvo place structurewhen first places redundant plus others symmetrical veljvo Some symmetrical veljvo have further equivalent places in= addition to the respective first places. Consider the lujvo=20 =20 tinju'i,=20 to listen (=20 to hear attentively, to hear and pay attention). The pl= ace structures of the gismu=20 tirna and=20 jundi are: @@ -306,20 +301,21 @@ <para><definition> <valsi>tirna</valsi>: t1 hears sound t2 against background noise t3<= /definition></para> =20 <para><definition> <valsi>jundi</valsi>: j1 pays attention to j2</definition></para> </example> <para> <indexterm type=3D"general-imported"><primary>background noise<= /primary></indexterm> and the place structure of the lujvo is:</para> <example xml:id=3D"example-random-id-EUr1"> <title> <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e5d4"/> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>listen attentively</primary><= secondary>example</secondary></indexterm> j1=3Dt1 listens to j2=3Dt2 against background nois= e t3 =20 Why so? Because not only is the j1 place (the one who pays atten= tion) equivalent to the t1 place (the hearer), but the j2 place (the thing = paid attention to) is equivalent to the t2 place (the thing heard). lujvo place struc= turewhen first place redundant with non-first lujvoasymmetrical A substantial minority o= f lujvo have the property that the first place of the seltau (=20 gerku in this case) is equivalent to a place other than= the first place of the tertau; such lujvo are said to be=20 asymmetrical. (There is a deliberate parallel here with= the terms=20 asymmetrical tanru and=20 =20 @@ -349,21 +345,20 @@ However, although=20 gerselzda is a valid lujvo, it doesn't tr= anslate=20 doghouse; its first place is the dog, not the doghouse.= Furthermore, it is more complicated than necessary;=20 gerzda is simpler than=20 gerselzda. From the reader's or listener's point of view, it may not always= be obvious whether a newly met lujvo is symmetrical or asymmetrical, and i= f the latter, what kind of asymmetrical lujvo. If the place structure of th= e lujvo isn't given in a dictionary or elsewhere, then plausibility must be= applied, just as in interpreting tanru. =20 =20 =20 -car goerexample =20 The lujvo=20 karcykla, for example, is based on=20 karce klama, or=20 car goer. The place structure of=20 =20 karce is: <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e5d7"/> @@ -376,20 +371,21 @@ <example xml:id=3D"example-random-id-GgxL"> <title> <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e5d8"/> kl1 goes to car kl2=3Dka1 which carries ka2 propel= led by ka3 from origin kl3 via route kl4 by means of kl5 But in general we go about in cars, rather than going to cars, s= o a far more likely place structure treats the ka1 place as equivalent to t= he kl5 place, leading to <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e5d9"/> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>car goer</primary><secondary>= example</secondary></indexterm> kl1 goes to destination kl2 from origin kl3 via ro= ute kl4 by means of car kl5=3Dka1 carrying ka2 propelled by ka3. instead.

Dependent places lujvo place struc= turedependent places In order = to understand which places, if any, should be completely removed from a luj= vo place structure, we need to understand the concept of dependent places. = One place of a brivla is said to be dependent on another if its value can b= e predicted from the values of one or more of the other places. For example= , the g2 place of=20 =20 =20 @@ -412,26 +408,26 @@

la mon. rePOS. gerzda la spat. Mon Repos is a doghouse of Spot. =20

=20 =20 -Mon Reposexample =20 really means <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e6d3"/> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>Mon Repos</primary><secondary= >example</secondary></indexterm>

la mon. rePOS. zdani la spat. noi gerku Mon Repos is a house of Spot, who is a dog. =20

since that is the interpretation we have given=20 gerzda. But that in turn means unspecified breed= example FIXME: TAG SPOT @@ -465,21 +461,20 @@ la mon. rePOS. gerzda la spat. noi ke'a gerku la sankt. berNA= RD. ku'o la sankt. berNARD. Mon Repos is a doghouse of Spot, who is a dog of breed St= . Bernard, of breed St. Bernard. supplementary inf= ormation employing the over-ample place structure of= =20 . The dog breed is redundant= ly given both in the main selbri and in the relative clause, and (intuitive= ly speaking) is repeated in the wrong place, since the dog breed is supplem= entary information about the dog, and not about the doghouse. =20 =20 =20 -beetlee= xample =20 As a further example, take=20 cakcinki, the lujvo for=20 beetle, based on the tanru=20 =20 calku cinki, or=20 shell-insect. The gismu place structures are: <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e6d7"/> @@ -488,20 +483,21 @@ <valsi>calku</valsi>: ca1 is a shell/husk around ca2 made of ca3</pa= ra> <para> <valsi>cinki</valsi>: ci1 is an insect/arthropod of species ci2</par= a> =20 </example> <para> <indexterm type=3D"general-imported"><primary>lujvo place struc= ture</primary><secondary>dropping cross-dependent places</secondary></index= term> <indexterm type=3D"general-imported"><primary>lujvo place structure<= /primary><secondary>cross-dependent places</secondary></indexterm> <indext= erm type=3D"general-imported"><primary>cross-dependency</primary></indexter= m> <indexterm type=3D"general-imported"><primary>arthropod</primary></inde= xterm> This example illustrates a cross-dependency between a place of one g= ismu and a place of the other. The ca3 place is dependent on ci1, because a= ll insects (which fit into ci1) have shells made of chitin (which fits into= ca3). Furthermore, ca1 is dependent on ci1 as well, because each insect ha= s only a single shell. And since ca2 (the thing with the shell) is equivale= nt to ci1 (the insect), the place structure is</para> =20 <example xml:id=3D"example-random-id-n7JB"> <title> <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e6d8"/> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>beetle</primary><secondary>ex= ample</secondary></indexterm> ci1=3Dca2 is a beetle of species ci2<= /para> =20 with not a single place of=20 calku surviving independently! beetles= Coleoptera (Note that there is nothing in this explanation that tell= s us just why=20 cakcinki means=20 beetle (member of Coleoptera), since all insects in the= ir adult forms have chitin shells of some sort. The answer, which is in no = way predictable, is that the shell is a prominent, highly noticeable featur= e of beetles in particular.) =20 @@ -517,104 +513,108 @@ klama tertau into a=20 litru or=20 cliva concept, for example: these gismu differ in their= number of arguments, and suppressing places of=20 klama in a lujvo doesn't make any sense if the resultin= g modified place structure is that of=20 litru or=20 cliva. Sometimes the dependency is between a single place of the tertau= and the whole event described by the seltau. Such cases are discussed furt= her in=20 . =20 =20 -school buildingexample =20 lujvo place structuredropping dependent placescaveat auditorium= s elem= entary schools = playgrounds recital rooms Unfortunately, not all d= ependent places in the seltau can be safely removed: some of them are neces= sary to interpreting the lujvo's meaning in context. It doesn't matter much= to a doghouse what breed of dog inhabits it, but it can make quite a lot o= f difference to the construction of a school building what kind of school i= s in it! Music schools need auditoriums and recital rooms, elementary schoo= ls need playgrounds, and so on: therefore, the place structure of=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 kuldi'u (from=20 ckule dinju, and meaning=20 school building) needs to be =20 <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e6d9"/> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>school building</primary><sec= ondary>example</secondary></indexterm> d1 is a building housing school c1 teaching subjec= t c3 to audience c4 even though c3 and c4 are plainly dependent on c1. The other pla= ces of=20 ckule, the location (c2) and operators (c5), don't seem= to be necessary to the concept=20 school building, and are dependent on c1 to boot, so th= ey are omitted. Again, the need for case-by-case consideration of place str= uctures is demonstrated. =20

Ordering lujvo places. lujvo place order= So far, we have concentrated on selecting the places= to go into the place structure of a lujvo. However, this is only half the = story. In using selbri in Lojban, it is important to remember the right ord= er of the sumti. With lujvo, the need to attend to the order of sumti becom= es critical: the set of places selected should be ordered in such a way tha= t a reader unfamiliar with the lujvo should be able to tell which place is = which. =20 =20 -prayere= xample =20 lujvo place orderrationale for standardization If we aim= to make understandable lujvo, then, we should make the order of places in = the place structure follow some conventions. If this does not occur, very r= eal ambiguities can turn up. Take for example the lujvo=20 jdaselsku, meaning=20 prayer. In the sentence <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e7d1"/> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>prayer</primary><secondary>ex= ample</secondary></indexterm> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>Dong</primary><secondary>exam= ple</secondary></indexterm>

di'e jdaselsku la dong. =20 This-utterance is-a-prayer somehow-related-to-Dong. =20

=20 =20 -Dongexa= mple =20 we must be able to know if Dong is the person making the prayer, giving t= he meaning =20 <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e7d2"/> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>prayer</primary><secondary>ex= ample</secondary></indexterm> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>Dong</primary><secondary>exam= ple</secondary></indexterm> This is a prayer by Dong =20 or is the entity being prayed to, resulting in <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e7d3"/> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>prayer</primary><secondary>ex= ample</secondary></indexterm> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>Dong</primary><secondary>exam= ple</secondary></indexterm> This is a prayer to Dong =20 We could resolve such problems on a case-by-case basis for each = lujvo (=20 =20 discusses when this is act= ually necessary), but case-by-case resolution for run-of-the-mill lujvo mak= es the task of learning lujvo place structures unmanageable. People need co= nsistent patterns to make sense of what they learn. Such patterns can be fo= und across gismu place structures (see=20 ), and are even more= necessary in lujvo place structures. Case-by-case consideration is still n= ecessary; lujvo creation is a subtle art, after all. But it is helpful to t= ake advantage of any available regularities. =20 =20 =20 =20 -great soldierexample =20 lujvo place ordersymmetrical lujvo elimination process We use = two different ordering rules: one for symmetrical lujvo and one for asymmet= rical ones. A symmetrical lujvo like=20 balsoi (from=20 ) has the places o= f its tertau followed by whatever places of the seltau survive the eliminat= ion process. For=20 =20 balsoi, the surviving places of=20 banli are b2 and b3, leading to the place structure: <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e7d4"/> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>great soldier</primary><secon= dary>example</secondary></indexterm> b1=3Ds1 is a great soldier of army s2 in property = b2 by standard b3 =20 just what appears in=20 . In fact, all place structu= res shown until now have been in the correct order by the conventions of th= is section, though the fact has been left tacit until now. The motivation for this rule is the parallelism between the lujv= o bridi-schema <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e7d5"/> @@ -633,21 +633,20 @@ <jbo>b1 sonci s2 gi'e banli b2 b3</jbo> <gloss>b1 is-a-soldier of-army-s2 and is-great in-property-b2 by-s= tandard-b3</gloss> </interlinear-gloss> </example> <para>where=20 <valsi>gi'e</valsi> is the Lojban word for=20 <quote>and</quote> when placed between two partial bridi, as explained= in=20 <xref linkend=3D"section-compound-bridi"/>.</para> <para>=20 =20 -<indexterm type=3D"example-imported"><primary>veterinarian</primary><secon= dary>example</secondary></indexterm> =20 <indexterm type=3D"general-imported"><primary>lujvo place order</primary= ><secondary>asymmetrical lujvo</secondary></indexterm> <indexterm type=3D"= general-imported"><primary>animal doctor</primary><secondary>example</secon= dary></indexterm> Asymmetrical lujvo like=20 <oldjbophrase>gerzda</oldjbophrase>, on the other hand, employ a diffe= rent rule. The seltau places are inserted not at the end of the place struc= ture, but rather immediately after the tertau place which is equivalent to = the first place of the seltau. Consider=20 <oldjbophrase>dalmikce</oldjbophrase>, meaning=20 <quote>veterinarian</quote>: its veljvo is=20 =20 <oldjbophrase>danlu mikce</oldjbophrase>, or=20 <quote>animal doctor</quote>. The place structures for those gismu are= :</para> =20 <example xml:id=3D"example-random-id-BqPj"> @@ -659,31 +658,31 @@ <para> <valsi>mikce</valsi>: m1 is a doctor to patient m2 for ailment m3 us= ing treatment m4</para> =20 </example> <para> <indexterm type=3D"general-imported"><primary>ailment</primary>= </indexterm> and the lujvo place structure is:</para> =20 =20 <example xml:id=3D"example-random-id-WeBW"> <title> <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e7d8"/> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>veterinarian</primary><second= ary>example</secondary></indexterm> m1 is a doctor for animal m2=3Dd1 of species d2 fo= r ailment m3 using treatment m4 animal patient Since the shared place is m2=3Dd1, the animal patient, = the remaining seltau place d2 is inserted immediately after the shared plac= e; then the remaining tertau places form the last two places of the lujvo.<= /para> =20

lujvo with more than two parts. =20 =20 -tomorrowexample =20 lujvo place orderbased on 3-or-more part veljvo The theo= ry we have outlined so far is an account of lujvo with two parts. But often= lujvo are made containing more than two parts. An example is=20 bavlamdei,=20 tomorrow: it is composed of the rafsi for=20 =20 future,=20 adjacent, and=20 day. How does the account we have given apply to lujvo = like this? The best way to approach such lujvo is to continue to classify t= hem as based on binary tanru, the only difference being that the seltau or = the tertau or both is itself a lujvo. So it is easiest to make sense of=20 bavlamdei as having two components:=20 @@ -707,26 +706,26 @@ duration d1 is d2 days long (default 1) by standard d3 anomalous orderin= g of lujvo places While symmetrical lujvo normally pu= t any trailing tertau places before any seltau places, the day standard is = a much less important concept than the day the tomorrow follows, in the def= inition of=20 =20 bavlamdei. This is an example of how the = guidelines presented for selecting and ordering lujvo places are just that,= not laws that must be rigidly adhered to. In this case, we choose to rank = places in order of relative importance. The resulting place structure is: <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e8d3"/> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>tomorrow</primary><secondary>= example</secondary></indexterm> d1=3Db1=3Dl1 is a day following b2=3Dl2, d2 days l= ater (default 1) by standard d3 =20 =20 -long-swordexample =20 medieval weapon<= /indexterm> Here is another example of a multi-part lujvo:=20 cladakyxa'i, meaning=20 long-sword, a specific type of medieval weapon. The gis= mu place structures are: =20 =20 <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e8d4"/> @@ -738,20 +737,21 @@ xarci: xa1 is a weapon for use against xa2 by wielder= xa3 sword blade Since=20 cladakyxa'i is a symmetrical lujvo based = on=20 cladakfu xarci, and=20 cladakfu is itself a symmetrical lujvo, w= e can do the necessary analyses all at once. Plainly c1 (the long thing), d= 1 (the knife), and xa1 (the weapon) are all the same. Likewise, the d2 plac= e (the thing cut) is the same as the xa2 place (the target of the weapon), = given that swords are used to cut victims. Finally, the c2 place (direction= of length) is always along the sword blade in a longsword, by definition, = and so is dependent on c1=3Dd1=3Dxa1. Adding on the places of the remaining= gismu in right-to-left order we get: =20 <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e8d5"/> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>long-sword</primary><secondar= y>example</secondary></indexterm> xa1=3Dd1=3Dc1 is a long-sword for use against xa2= =3Dd2 by wielder xa3, with a blade made of d3, length measured by standard = c3. If the last place sounds unimportant to you, notice that what co= unts legally as a=20 sword, rather than just a=20 knife, depends on the length of the blade (the legal li= mit varies in different jurisdictions). This fifth place of=20 cladakyxa'i may not often be explicitly f= illed, but it is still useful on occasion. Because it is so seldom importan= t, it is best that it be last.

Eliding SE rafsi from seltau @@ -815,31 +815,31 @@ Eliding SE rafsi from tertau lujvo place struc= tureeffect of "SE"-dropping in tertau Eliding SE rafsi from tertau gets us into much more troub= le. To understand why, recall that lujvo, following their veljvo, describe = some type of whatever their tertau describe. Thus,=20 posydji describes a type of=20 djica,=20 gerzda describes a type of=20 zdani, and so on. What is certain is that=20 gerzda does not describe a=20 se zdani- it is not a word that could be = used to describe an inhabitant such as a dog. =20 =20 -blue-eyedexample =20 Now consider how we would translate the word=20 blue-eyed. Let's tentatively translate this word as=20 =20 blakanla (from=20 blanu kanla, meaning=20 blue eye). But immediately we are in trouble: we cannot= say <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e10d1"/> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>blue-eyed</primary><secondary= >example</secondary></indexterm>

la djak. cu blakanla Jack is-a-blue-eye

because Jack is not an eye,=20 kanla, but someone with an eye,=20 se kanla. At best we can say @@ -871,63 +871,65 @@

Eliding KE and KEhE rafsi from lujvo lujvo place struc= turedropping "KEhE" = lujvo place structuredropping "KE" People constr= ucting lujvo usually want them to be as short as possible. To that end, the= y will discard any cmavo they regard as niceties. The first such cmavo to g= et thrown out are usually=20 ke and=20 ke'e, the cmavo used to structure and group tanru. We c= an usually get away with this, because the interpretation of the tertau wit= h=20 ke and=20 ke'e missing is less plausible than that with the cmavo= inserted, or because the distinction isn't really important. =20 =20 -beefsteakexample =20 beefsteak For example, in=20 bakrecpa'o, meaning=20 beefsteak, the veljvo is =20 <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e11d1"/> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>beefsteak</primary><secondary= >example</secondary></indexterm>

[ke] bakni rectu [ke'e] panlo ( bovine meat ) slice =20

=20 =20 -bovinee= xample =20 because of the usual Lojban left-grouping rule. But there doesn't seem to= be much difference between that veljvo and <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e11d2"/> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>bovine</primary><secondary>ex= ample</secondary></indexterm> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>meat slice</primary><secondar= y>example</secondary></indexterm>=20

bakni ke rectu panlo [ke'e] bovine ( meat slice ) =20 =20

=20 =20 -sneak inexample =20 - meat sliceexample On the other hand, the lujvo=20 + +On the other hand, the lujvo=20 zernerkla, meaning=20 to sneak in, almost certainly was formed from the veljv= o =20 <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e11d3"/> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>sneak in</primary><secondary>= example</secondary></indexterm>

zekri ke nenri klama [ke'e] crime ( inside go ) to go within, criminally

because the alternative, @@ -935,53 +937,46 @@

[ke] zekri nenri [ke'e] klama (crime inside) go

doesn't make much sense. (To go to the inside of a crime? To go = into a place where it is criminal to be inside – an interpretation al= most identical with=20 anyway?) =20 =20 -shellfishexample =20 shellfish There are cases, however, where omitting a KE or KEhE rafsi can produ= ce another lujvo, equally useful. For example,=20 xaskemcakcurnu means=20 oceanic shellfish, and has the veljvo =20 - =20 - -shell wormexample - - FIXME: TAG SPOT <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e11d5"/> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>shell worm</primary><secondar= y>example</secondary></indexterm> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>shellfish</primary><secondary= >example</secondary></indexterm>

xamsi ke calku curnu ocean type-of (shell worm) =20

invertebrate (=20 worm in Lojban refers to any invertebrate), but=20 =20 xasycakcurnu has the veljvo - =20 - -ocean shellexample =20 - FIXME: TAG SPOT <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e11d6"/> + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>ocean shell</primary><seconda= ry>example</secondary></indexterm>

[ke] xamsi calku [ke'e] curnu (ocean shell) type-of worm =20

clamshells parasitic wo= rmsexample and might refer to = the parasitic worms that infest clamshells. =20 =20 @@ -1553,44 +1548,45 @@ citno, with place structure <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e15d2"/> citno: c1 is young =20 =20 -younger= example =20 lujvo place ordercomparatives The comparative concept=20 younger can be expressed by the lujvo=20 =20 citmau (based on the veljvo=20 citno zmadu, meaning=20 young more-than). + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>younger</primary><secondary>e= xample</secondary></indexterm> <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e15d3"/>

mi citmau do lo nanca be li xa I am-younger-than you by-years the-number six. =20 I am six years younger than you. =20

The place structure for=20 citmau is + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>younger</primary><secondary>e= xample</secondary></indexterm> <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e15d4"/> z1=3Dc1 is younger than z2=3Dc1 by amount z4 =20 Similarly, in Lojban you can say: <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e15d5"/> @@ -1703,27 +1699,27 @@ Consider the gismu=20 xamgu, whose place structure is: <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e15d10"/> xa1 is good for xa2 by standard xa3 =20 =20 -bettere= xample =20 The comparative form is=20 xagmau, corresponding to English=20 better, with a place structure (by the rules given abov= e) of + <indexterm type=3D"example"><primary>better</primary><secondary>ex= ample</secondary></indexterm> <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e15d11"/> z1 is better than z2 for xa2 by standard xa3 in am= ount z4 lujvo place order= superlatives lujvo place structuresu= perlatives We would expect the place structure of= =20 xagrai, the superlative form, to somehow = mirror that, given that comparatives and superlatives are comparable concep= ts, resulting in: =20 <anchor xml:id=3D"c12e15d12"/> --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= BPFK" group. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googleg= roups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-l= ist?hl=3Den.