Received: from mail-pb0-f57.google.com ([209.85.160.57]:57607) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1W4y2V-0000w0-Oo; Sun, 19 Jan 2014 11:28:33 -0800 Received: by mail-pb0-f57.google.com with SMTP id rq2sf1350164pbb.22 for ; Sun, 19 Jan 2014 11:28:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:reply-to:mail-followup-to :mime-version:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=l4twjAIG3yR88f6B9fZwdVKgfqGQryQ7z1ctq9GlsvU=; b=B/ZfhyHn7+ROyOBl2UxvJHzMZ6IvnLYi6YcwD0Pj84sTyhNLl0ZHfV9YDofBZ6IUZB bv6A8EGnoBeIUufZCV9F4t0yul2GedW27+gxI5oFN4DSZ1i0HiKn9eE1HfRrZLh8YRkz T40tM4BmKuQY3sXMZI2h7mDtjEcL0Pcfo4yy7MI3Aj7xqz7DpD+8pyKVtzzvQb7wonUp nq/hX+ClC+CgUcieaFD1/X2UvtucA01yWzPbHQvrT09tiA45JYdMQw4g3wgCe3xer0ay ke/H+KhQgfsgktngKLCdI5asZ4pvgjmk4l3TPOHwXZzTJzEzxWEq0bAZwZBdJOmYoFQx oAKw== X-Received: by 10.50.50.241 with SMTP id f17mr5347igo.0.1390159683631; Sun, 19 Jan 2014 11:28:03 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.222.104 with SMTP id ql8ls1392910igc.33.canary; Sun, 19 Jan 2014 11:28:03 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.68.201.7 with SMTP id jw7mr1158150pbc.8.1390159683310; Sun, 19 Jan 2014 11:28:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from stodi.digitalkingdom.org (mail.digitalkingdom.org. [173.13.139.236]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id rf7si3399712pab.2.2014.01.19.11.28.02 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 19 Jan 2014 11:28:03 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.236 as permitted sender) client-ip=173.13.139.236; Received: from rlpowell by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1W4y2L-0000vl-Hf; Sun, 19 Jan 2014 11:28:02 -0800 Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 11:28:01 -0800 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com, bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Subject: [bpfk] HISTORIAN/general discussion: po (GOI) and sumtcita Message-ID: <20140119192801.GA3217@stodi.digitalkingdom.org> Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Mail-Followup-To: lojban@googlegroups.com, bpfk-list@googlegroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.236 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Content-Length: 1657 (replies to the main list please) So it turns out that GOI (goi, ne, no'u, pe, po, po'e, po'u) can take sumtcita. In http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK%20Section:%20Subordinators , I asserted that for pe and ne (and presumably po, athough I didn't say that) this means "sumtcita applies to the relevant sumti", which is *HUGELY* useful; using "le broda po fa'a le brodi" in this sense comes up *every day* with the jbocifnu, usually in the form of "don't pee on the X" :). So this is a thing in the language that literally *does not appear*, even in brief reference, in the CLL. My questions are: 0. Can someone who has the old official parse running confirm that this works there too and isn't some knid of weird regression? 1. Does anyone know, historically, why this works? 2. What should this mean with each member of GOI? "With X it's meaningless don't do that" is a reasonable response; "goi" is an obvious target there. Thanks. -Robin -- http://intelligence.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. .i ko na cpedu lo nu stidi vau loi jbopre .i dafsku lu na go'i li'u .e lu go'i li'u .i ji'a go'i lu na'e go'i li'u .e lu go'i na'i li'u .e lu no'e go'i li'u .e lu to'e go'i li'u .e lu lo mamta be do cu sofybakni li'u -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BPFK" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.