Received: from mail-pa0-f60.google.com ([209.85.220.60]:64726)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.80.1)
	(envelope-from <bpfk-list+bncBCK7BH4HXIGRBS5FTCOAKGQEIYA2NBA@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1WpgzS-0003rB-0Z; Wed, 28 May 2014 09:46:17 -0700
Received: by mail-pa0-f60.google.com with SMTP id kx10sf377992pab.5
        for <multiple recipients>; Wed, 28 May 2014 09:46:03 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to
         :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to
         :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive
         :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=ckxggx3tS6IVVdEm5kZm0pNh9RaCbj/cr9YSYCLB4y0=;
        b=Vta0F85F4VellekHYiJx5e2VmMhtm643BvcO4DuD+1rBag2qEnfikmrGRgcoS8NBpI
         HwN3JbhdBny018Nhkq2ysKwQX+9a4V6aZGMX2TUpeTiQRuNFPwgtn9yG4Cdz5tZ0HxBy
         uzIBnK7BZ8HhdRYFfbEacmOHp2LL0pu7I1Huynq0BKuwTt7u4y2hzYL2o9niFvNlJCVA
         duxbEfAhO8p+PRvYBDYDpEfOtrZYdqa+svnMMsULkMWWB9bFyXicaTZ06FvgHMTChGV7
         25ajpYYoDkYfM0JpN6hLPErO04qsa6OpJzcPGIc3ZKFaeCOOSp6B0tWahuzgEv9Phh5V
         eQoA==
X-Received: by 10.140.80.5 with SMTP id b5mr23108qgd.20.1401295563720;
        Wed, 28 May 2014 09:46:03 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.140.30.165 with SMTP id d34ls205443qgd.25.gmail; Wed, 28 May
 2014 09:46:03 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.52.113.226 with SMTP id jb2mr286506vdb.6.1401295563441;
        Wed, 28 May 2014 09:46:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-ve0-x22f.google.com (mail-ve0-x22f.google.com [2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22f])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id pr8si1738vdb.1.2014.05.28.09.46.03
        for <bpfk-list@googlegroups.com>
        (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
        Wed, 28 May 2014 09:46:03 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of adamlopresto@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22f as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22f;
Received: by mail-ve0-f175.google.com with SMTP id jw12so12839538veb.34
        for <bpfk-list@googlegroups.com>; Wed, 28 May 2014 09:46:03 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.220.95.204 with SMTP id e12mr897321vcn.37.1401295563298;
 Wed, 28 May 2014 09:46:03 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Received: by 10.58.58.10 with HTTP; Wed, 28 May 2014 09:45:43 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <CABM8VqeSsGK2730qHbdtijkq45ky43X259Khvg79a7D=i7hq4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5383A193.3010907@gmx.de> <53847E05.1000107@gmx.de>
 <CAO7tK2c5v0a1=ODy7pXzmy9ubCzsqA2g75AuBhs-EuqGdaZ7eg@mail.gmail.com>
 <53850FBA.50309@gmx.de> <CAO7tK2cYJCRVh+TneWJCgYONFDSGCEaO4SR=CdEU86AsbkfT3w@mail.gmail.com>
 <5385B1E2.4000409@gmx.de> <5385B6C9.7080202@gmx.de> <CABM8VqeSsGK2730qHbdtijkq45ky43X259Khvg79a7D=i7hq4A@mail.gmail.com>
From: Adam Lopresto <adamlopresto@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 28 May 2014 11:45:43 -0500
Message-ID: <CABM8VqeYEHiKOg1KedqiTZpZhKBE0OL=HEUFBM5_Xrnd=8FFLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bpfk] Finishing the BPFK sections
To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: adamlopresto@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com;       spf=pass
 (google.com: domain of adamlopresto@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22f
 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=adamlopresto@gmail.com;       dkim=pass
 header.i=@gmail.com;       dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com
Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <bpfk-list.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list/post>, <mailto:bpfk-list@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:bpfk-list+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list>
Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list/subscribe>, <mailto:bpfk-list+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list/subscribe>, <mailto:googlegroups-manage+972099695765+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c1f3ec46a09404fa788c04
X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/)
X-Spam_score: 0.0
X-Spam_score_int: 0
X-Spam_bar: /
Content-Length: 7810

--001a11c1f3ec46a09404fa788c04
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Similar issues with Directional Spatial, particularly {fa'a}. I suggest "When
tagging a sumti, the event is oriented toward that sumti" to make it clear
that only the location of the tagged sumti is relevant, not its own
orientation. Unless something else was actually meant, in which case it's
actively misleading.

Likewise, for {to'o}, "When tagging a sumti, the event is oriented away
from that sumti."


On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Adam Lopresto <adamlopresto@gmail.com>wrote:

> I'd like to see some of the Non-Contact Spatials spelled out a little more
> clearly. In particular, I think the intention is that {ri'u ko'a broda}
> assumes that {ko'a} has an orientation, and that the event of {broda}-ing
> is to {ko'a}'s right, and that the speaker's location and orientation are
> irrelevant, but that point is not entirely clear from the definition as
> stated. If I'm facing north and you're to the north of me, facing south
> back at me, then a dog between us to the east is "to the right of you" from
> my point of view, but also "to your left". .i gerku ri'u je'i zu'a do
>
> Same question for {ca'u} and {ti'a}. "In front of X" can mean "between me
> and X" ("a shadow passed in front of the moon"), or it could mean "in the
> direction that X is facing". Both should be expressible, and the
> definitions need to be unambiguously one or the other.
>
>
> On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 5:13 AM, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:
>
>> mi cusku di'e
>>
>>> Happy voting!
>>>
>>
>> By the way, I think the only debatable point in all those sections is the
>> cmavo {ne'a}, which has two popular meanings/uses. Those meanings are {fi'o
>> se zvajbi} i.e. "near/in the vicinity of", and {fi'o se mlana} "on the side
>> of". The former is compatible with the latter, but not vice-versa.
>>
>> Some corpus examples:
>>
>> http://corpus.lojban.org/corpus/search/ne%27a
>>
>>
>> mi'e la selpa'i mu'o
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "BPFK" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BPFK" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--001a11c1f3ec46a09404fa788c04
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Similar issues with Directional Spatial, particularly {fa&=
#39;a}. I suggest &quot;<span style=3D"font-family:Verdana,Arial,sans-serif=
;font-size:12px;line-height:18px">When tagging a sumti, the event is orient=
ed toward that sumti&quot; to make it clear that only the location of the t=
agged sumti is relevant, not its own orientation. Unless something else was=
 actually meant, in which case it&#39;s actively misleading.</span><div>

<span style=3D"font-family:Verdana,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-hei=
ght:18px"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:Verdana,Arial,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:18px">Likewise, for {to&#39;o}, &quot;W=
hen tagging a sumti, the event is oriented away from that sumti.&quot;</spa=
n></div>

</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed,=
 May 28, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Adam Lopresto <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:adamlopresto@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">adamlopresto@gmail.com</a>&=
gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I&#39;d like to see some of=
 the Non-Contact Spatials spelled out a little more clearly. In particular,=
 I think the intention is that {ri&#39;u ko&#39;a broda} assumes that {ko&#=
39;a} has an orientation, and that the event of {broda}-ing is to {ko&#39;a=
}&#39;s right, and that the speaker&#39;s location and orientation are irre=
levant, but that point is not entirely clear from the definition as stated.=
 If I&#39;m facing north and you&#39;re to the north of me, facing south ba=
ck at me, then a dog between us to the east is &quot;to the right of you&qu=
ot; from my point of view, but also &quot;to your left&quot;. .i gerku ri&#=
39;u je&#39;i zu&#39;a do<div>


<br></div><div>Same question for {ca&#39;u} and {ti&#39;a}. &quot;In front =
of X&quot; can mean &quot;between me and X&quot; (&quot;a shadow passed in =
front of the moon&quot;), or it could mean &quot;in the direction that X is=
 facing&quot;. Both should be expressible, and the definitions need to be u=
nambiguously one or the other.=C2=A0</div>


</div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><b=
r><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 5:13 AM, selpa&#39=
;i <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:seladwa@gmx.de" target=3D"_blank=
">seladwa@gmx.de</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
mi cusku di&#39;e<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Happy voting!<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
By the way, I think the only debatable point in all those sections is the c=
mavo {ne&#39;a}, which has two popular meanings/uses. Those meanings are {f=
i&#39;o se zvajbi} i.e. &quot;near/in the vicinity of&quot;, and {fi&#39;o =
se mlana} &quot;on the side of&quot;. The former is compatible with the lat=
ter, but not vice-versa.<br>



<br>
Some corpus examples:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://corpus.lojban.org/corpus/search/ne%27a" target=3D"_blank"=
>http://corpus.lojban.org/<u></u>corpus/search/ne%27a</a><div><div><br>
<br>
mi&#39;e la selpa&#39;i mu&#39;o<br>
<br>
-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;BPFK&quot; group.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:bpfk-list%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target=
=3D"_blank">bpfk-list+unsubscribe@<u></u>googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:bpfk-list@googlegrou=
ps.com" target=3D"_blank">bpfk-list@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/<u></u>group/bpfk-list</a>.<br>
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/optout" targ=
et=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/<u></u>optout</a>.<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;BPFK&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">bpfk-list=
+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:bpfk-list@googlegrou=
ps.com">bpfk-list@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list">ht=
tp://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list</a>.<br />
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/optout">http=
s://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br />

--001a11c1f3ec46a09404fa788c04--