Having given it some thought, I'm now thinking it woul= d be best to include an explicit mention of an origin in the definitions. S= o something like=C2=A0

ca'u: indicates that the even= t is in front of a certain point, that is, between that point and the origi= n. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the point that the event is in= front of, when viewed from the origin.

And each definition have a Notes section with some text= describing the origin. Right now, the best I have is "Implicit origin= is supplied by context, and is often, but not always, the speaker. Explici= t origin is assignable with {ki}."

Then {ri'u} becomes "Spatial tense. It indicat= es that the event is located to the right of a certain point when viewed fr= om the origin. When tagging a sumti, the sumti specifies the point the even= t to the right of." with the same note.

I'm open to other ideas, but I think being explicit= about that sort of thing is useful.

On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 1:26 PM, selpa&#= 39;i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:

la xalbo cu cusku di'e

I'd like to see some of the Non-Contact Spatials spelled out a little more clearly. In particular, I think the intention is that {ri'u ko'= ;a
broda} assumes that {ko'a} has an orientation, and that the event of {broda}-ing is to {ko'a}'s right, and that the speaker's locati= on and
orientation are irrelevant, but that point is not entirely clear from
the definition as stated. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0

To me it's not about the facing of the tagged sumti. Some things do not= even have an intrinsic orientation. A tree has no clearly identifyable fro= nt, yet something can be in front of the tree from a certain point of view.=

Same question for {ca'u} and {ti'a}. "In front of X" can = mean "between
me and X" ("a shadow passed in front of the moon"), or it co= uld mean "in
the direction that X is facing". Both should be expressible, and the definitions need to be unambiguously one or the other.

Both are expressible. {ca'u} unambiguously means the former to me, but = it's not necessarily between X and *me*. It's in front of X as seen= from a certain frame of reference or reference point.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0lo ctino cu pagre ca'u lo lunra
=C2=A0 =C2=A0"A shadow passed in front of the moon."

This doesn't specify from what direction we're looking at the situa= tion (at the moon), but just as with other tenses, this implicit reference = point tends to be the here and now of the speaker unless context suggests o= therwise. We can of course be explicit and use {ki}, which sets the space-t= ime frame of reference.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0ki mi lo gerku cu denpa ri'u lo tricu
=C2=A0 =C2=A0"From where I am, the dog is waiting to the right of the = tree."

This expands directly to:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0lo nu lo gerku cu denpa cu pritu lo tricu mi
=C2=A0 =C2=A0"The event of the dog waiting is to the right of the tree= from me."

For all tenses, {broda TENSE ko'e} is {lo nu broda cu TENSE_SELBRI ko&#= 39;e}, and tenses based on ternary predicates which involve a frame of refe= rence additionally use {ki} to mark that frame of reference (e.g. {za}, {zo= 'i}, {vi}, {ni'a}, ...).

I agree that clarifying this somehow in the definitions would be useful.

mi'e la selpa'i mu'o

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