Received: from mail-ie0-f183.google.com ([209.85.223.183]:43693)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.80.1)
	(envelope-from <bpfk-list+bncBCGJHDV3NEIODD4OTUCRUBCZ3KVOU@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1WxnCp-00007F-Qc; Thu, 19 Jun 2014 18:01:35 -0700
Received: by mail-ie0-f183.google.com with SMTP id lx4sf668844iec.20
        for <multiple recipients>; Thu, 19 Jun 2014 18:01:21 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:references:mime-version:in-reply-to
         :user-agent:sender:x-original-sender
         :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list
         :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:list-subscribe
         :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition
         :content-transfer-encoding;
        bh=J8GsqveJKeaD84PEF3gWH+GqLgvY/b3GKw8+W4aM3fU=;
        b=Z+Nv0IULp8j720nD40OWYvb2OptbExN3DFJeiqZ+Tx+RmJgTiOWGgb3Zt2dzCU1AUT
         dMmXt0E0LhMn5r1GpGtf0cvrPbYDYXX/+NzWWaXzynpqql1MPnQ/D5SjDOqu5TFHch8Q
         u9odIuuO0nSZh9j3/hAH/LIo8kKHQssqpSWPleLpwrvD1V91iLwCa7Dn+aWcsvSbMUj1
         S520E5fBaG5BWrs2looY+t5KzwjJ3sUHpy/I1mgJCYwUxJ7KxEbeJmyqK447NvzLkg8B
         viax7+OkUpp2UwqT1YPWUkRx8AvRfYMHP5vy2vmnvMSaZxb7djIzxrh7Y7eYW/4BwIFh
         o5Hg==
X-Received: by 10.140.92.225 with SMTP id b88mr702qge.25.1403226081880;
        Thu, 19 Jun 2014 18:01:21 -0700 (PDT)
X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.140.96.6 with SMTP id j6ls774447qge.89.gmail; Thu, 19 Jun 2014
 18:01:21 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.58.48.233 with SMTP id p9mr53476ven.31.1403226081623;
        Thu, 19 Jun 2014 18:01:21 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from earth.ccil.org (earth.ccil.org. [192.190.237.11])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id he4si1545484qcb.0.2014.06.19.18.01.21
        for <bpfk-list@googlegroups.com>
        (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
        Thu, 19 Jun 2014 18:01:21 -0700 (PDT)
Received-SPF: none (google.com: cowan@ccil.org does not designate permitted sender hosts) client-ip=192.190.237.11;
Received: from cowan by earth.ccil.org with local (Exim 4.72)
	(envelope-from <cowan@ccil.org>)
	id 1WxnCi-0006Jx-Ie
	for bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; Thu, 19 Jun 2014 21:01:20 -0400
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 21:01:20 -0400
From: John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org>
To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [bpfk] Finishing the BPFK sections
Message-ID: <20140620010120.GI24620@mercury.ccil.org>
References: <CAO7tK2c5v0a1=ODy7pXzmy9ubCzsqA2g75AuBhs-EuqGdaZ7eg@mail.gmail.com>
 <53850FBA.50309@gmx.de>
 <CAO7tK2cYJCRVh+TneWJCgYONFDSGCEaO4SR=CdEU86AsbkfT3w@mail.gmail.com>
 <5385B1E2.4000409@gmx.de>
 <5385B6C9.7080202@gmx.de>
 <CABM8VqeSsGK2730qHbdtijkq45ky43X259Khvg79a7D=i7hq4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140618231316.GB856@mercury.ccil.org>
 <CAO7tK2cm1E4MyN7101VHH2k_Dgsqu0FVHWLnrmhSmsMR32KSyg@mail.gmail.com>
 <20140619235321.GF24620@mercury.ccil.org>
 <CAO7tK2cruM43LJt+=kU2MNt-G=RE7mbgsmOquNvqDoy1YiwuEw@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <CAO7tK2cruM43LJt+=kU2MNt-G=RE7mbgsmOquNvqDoy1YiwuEw@mail.gmail.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14)
Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: cowan@ccil.org
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com;       spf=neutral
 (google.com: cowan@ccil.org does not designate permitted sender hosts) smtp.mail=cowan@ccil.org
Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <bpfk-list.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list/post>, <mailto:bpfk-list@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:bpfk-list+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list>
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list/subscribe>, <mailto:bpfk-list+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list/subscribe>, <mailto:googlegroups-manage+972099695765+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-)
X-Spam_score: -1.9
X-Spam_score_int: -18
X-Spam_bar: -
Content-Length: 1723

Jorge Llamb=EDas scripsit:

> Not exactly in the same way, because faceless objects don't acquire
> a left and a right corresponding to their acquired front face (their
> acquired left and right, if they do have ones, would correspond to a
> face facing in the same way the speaker/point-of-view is facing, not
> facing towards the speaker.

I agree that that is so in English, but I don't think it necessarily
makes sense for Lojban.  In heraldry, the left side of a shield is
called the dexter (right) side, and the right side is called the
sinister (left) side, because blazonry takes the shield's point of view,
(ultimately that of the wearer) rather than the observer's point of view.

> So above/below, in-front-of/behind, and left-of/right-of each follow
> their own slightly different rules.

Above/below is an absolute (or rather Earth-relative) direction, like
north-south and east-west.  It doesn't fit here at all.  I see no reason
why front, back, left, and right should be inconsistent in Lojban just
because they are inconsistent in English.

--=20
John Cowan          http://www.ccil.org/~cowan        cowan@ccil.org
A mosquito cried out in his pain,
"A chemist has poisoned my brain!"
The cause of his sorrow / Was para-dichloro-
Diphenyltrichloroethane.                                (aka DDT)

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
BPFK" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.