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Subject: Re: [bpfk] Finishing the BPFK sections
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On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 10:01 PM, John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org> wrote:

>  In heraldry, the left side of a shield is
> called the dexter (right) side, and the right side is called the
> sinister (left) side, because blazonry takes the shield's point of view,
> (ultimately that of the wearer) rather than the observer's point of view.
>

That makes sense, since shields do have an intrinsic front side.

> So above/below, in-front-of/behind, and left-of/right-of each follow
> > their own slightly different rules.
>
> Above/below is an absolute (or rather Earth-relative) direction, like
> north-south and east-west.


But some objects do have an intrinsic up side and bottom side, otherwise
nothing could ever be upside down. So in this respect up/down is more like
front/back and left/right than like north/south and east/west.


>  It doesn't fit here at all.  I see no reason
> why front, back, left, and right should be inconsistent in Lojban just
> because they are inconsistent in English.


Well, are there any languages that don't work like English in this respect?
All the languages I know work the same way, but then they are all closely
related languages so that doesn't prove much. The rule may be somewhat
complicated but it's consistent across (at least some) languages. If there
are languages that work the way you suggest, where to the left of a column
that you are facing is to your right, then that rule might have a chance
for Lojban, if not, then making up such a rule would probably be hopeless
and just a source of confusion. I'm not strongly opposed to such a rule if
it's based on something more than an analogy that may be too simplistic.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Thu, Jun 19, 2014 at 10:01 PM, John Cowan <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:cowan@mercury.ccil.org" target=3D"_blank">cowan@mercury.ccil.org=
</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">=C2=A0In heraldry, the left side of a shield=
 is<br>
called the dexter (right) side, and the right side is called the<br>
sinister (left) side, because blazonry takes the shield&#39;s point of view=
,<br>
(ultimately that of the wearer) rather than the observer&#39;s point of vie=
w.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That makes sense, since shields do h=
ave an intrinsic front side.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding=
-left:1ex">
<div class=3D"">
&gt; So above/below, in-front-of/behind, and left-of/right-of each follow<b=
r>
&gt; their own slightly different rules.<br>
<br>
</div>Above/below is an absolute (or rather Earth-relative) direction, like=
<br>
north-south and east-west. </blockquote><div><br></div><div>But some object=
s do have an intrinsic up side and bottom side, otherwise nothing could eve=
r be upside down. So in this respect up/down is more like front/back and le=
ft/right than like north/south and east/west.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">=C2=A0It doesn&#39;t fit he=
re at all. =C2=A0I see no reason<br>
why front, back, left, and right should be inconsistent in Lojban just<br>
because they are inconsistent in English.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>W=
ell, are there any languages that don&#39;t work like English in this respe=
ct? All the languages I know work the same way, but then they are all close=
ly related languages so that doesn&#39;t prove much. The rule may be somewh=
at complicated but it&#39;s consistent across (at least some) languages. If=
 there are languages that work the way you suggest, where to the left of a =
column that you are facing is to your right, then that rule might have a ch=
ance for Lojban, if not, then making up such a rule would probably be hopel=
ess and just a source of confusion. I&#39;m not strongly opposed to such a =
rule if it&#39;s based on something more than an analogy that may be too si=
mplistic.</div>
<div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div><br></div></div></di=
v></div>

<p></p>

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