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Subject: Re: [bpfk] {gunma}, {selcmi} and gadri definitions
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I suggest that "e no lo na me x2" is merely a clarification, as it makes no
sense to say that the x1, which is the set of things the x2 refers to,
could contain things which are not part of that set.

xu ko'a me lo bakni cu se cmima lo grute


On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 7:55 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I disagree. I suggest that SEL- lujvo are always jvajvo, no cimjvo.
> The same goes for -gau, -zu'e, -selja'e, some other rafsi.
>
> 2014-09-09 17:53 GMT+04:00 And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>:
>
>> Ilmen, On 09/09/2014 14:15:
>>
>>> I don't like very much the idea of using the sel- rafsi in a
>>> non-compositional way, for making lujvo of the form {selbroda} whose
>>> meaning cannot be derived from {se broda}. It seems there's a pretty
>>> wide implicit agreement that the sel/ter/vel/xel rafsi should be
>>> regular (semantically compositional).
>>>
>>
>> That dislike and agreement strike me as not very rational. The principal
>> grammatical function of lujvo relative to phrases is to signal
>> noncompositionality -- a sense other than, and typically more specific
>> than, the sense of the unlujvoized phrasal counterpart. A secondary
>> function of lujvo is that sometimes they're shorter, but given that brevity
>> is only a marginal consideration in Lojban design, the key grammatical
>> characteristic of lujvohood is noncompositionality, with the rafsi having
>> merely a kind of mnemonic function.
>>
>> --And.
>>
>>
>> --
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>
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-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I suggest that &quot;e no lo na me x2&quot; is merely=
 a clarification, as it makes no sense to say that the x1, which is the set=
 of things the x2 refers to, could contain things which are not part of tha=
t set.<br><br></div>xu ko&#39;a me lo bakni cu se cmima lo grute<br></div><=
div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 9,=
 2014 at 7:55 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gl=
eki.is.my.name@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com</a>&=
gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 =
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I disa=
gree. I suggest that SEL- lujvo are always jvajvo, no cimjvo.<div>The same =
goes for -gau, -zu&#39;e, -selja&#39;e, some other rafsi.</div></div><div c=
lass=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">2014-09-09 17:53 GMT+04:00 And Rosta <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:and.rosta@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">and.rosta@gmail.c=
om</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0=
 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Ilmen, On 09/09/2014 1=
4:15:<span><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I don&#39;t like very much the idea of using the sel- rafsi in a<br>
non-compositional way, for making lujvo of the form {selbroda} whose<br>
meaning cannot be derived from {se broda}. It seems there&#39;s a pretty<br=
>
wide implicit agreement that the sel/ter/vel/xel rafsi should be<br>
regular (semantically compositional).<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span>
That dislike and agreement strike me as not very rational. The principal gr=
ammatical function of lujvo relative to phrases is to signal noncomposition=
ality -- a sense other than, and typically more specific than, the sense of=
 the unlujvoized phrasal counterpart. A secondary function of lujvo is that=
 sometimes they&#39;re shorter, but given that brevity is only a marginal c=
onsideration in Lojban design, the key grammatical characteristic of lujvoh=
ood is noncompositionality, with the rafsi having merely a kind of mnemonic=
 function.<span><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<br>
--And.</font></span><div><div><br>
<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

<p></p>

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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi=
&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.l=
uk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. =
:D )<br>
</div>

<p></p>

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