= On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 12:55 PM, And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com&g= t; wrote:

Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas, On = 26/10/2014 13:58:=C2=A0

On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 10:32 AM, And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com <mailto:and.rosta@gmail.com>&= gt; wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 There are 18 valid (morphological) codas: the 1= 7 consonants and the empty coda.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I guess it's at least 17, because each of the 17 Cs can o= ccur word-medially before another C that it can't occur word-initially = before?

I don't understand the question.

Is it the case that each of the 17 Cs can occur at the start of a cluster t= hat is licit in the middle of a word but not at the start of a word.

Ah, ok. Yes.

In addi= tion to the 17 single consonants, consonantal syllables also have that prop= erty, but they are not counted as part of the coda of the preceding syllabl= e, they form a syllable on their own.
=C2=A0
Unrelatedly, what's the basis for allowing CCC onsets? Does CLL express= ly licence CCC in fu'ivla? The licitness of CCC onsets can't be der= ived from gismu, lujvo, cmavo. And does CLL forbid CCCC onsets in fu'iv= la? (I'm being lazy, here, aren't I. If that's annoying, do rem= onstrate with me and I'll search online before asking.)

Yes, CLL allows the 36 CCC onsets that camxes allows, plus= a whole lot more (an infinite number in fact). CLL allows as initials any = combination of consonants in which each CC pair is a valid initial, and the= existence of the four affricate initials tc, ts, dj, dz means that indefin= itely long onsets are allowed: For example tstststststststststststststsati = would be a valid fu'ivla for CLL.

camxes keeps= the CLL rule but excluding the affricates from the combinations, and that = automatically restricts it to the 36 CCC and nothing else.

fu'ivla do allow a couple of things not present in lujvo, but = not a lot more: CCC initials and consonantal syllables.=C2=A0

There is a progression where each class of words introduces som= ething new: we start with vanilla CV (17 consonants and 5 vowels). Then we = have:

(1a) gismu introduce CCV and CVC syllables, = with the 48 valid CC onsets and the rules for which CVC can be followed by = which CV.=C2=A0

(1b) cmavo introduce four new onsets (the dot and= the apostrophe, the i/u glides) and five new nuclei (the four diphthongs a= nd y), plus the rule that dot can only be initial and apostrophe can only b= e medial (and possibly CG initials, although not in official cmavo).

<= div>(2) lujvo introduce CVVC and hVC syllables, required to prevent CVV and= CVhV initial rafsi from falling off, and I think that's about it.

(3) fu'ivla introduce CCC initials and consonantal syllables.

(4) cmevla introduce dot-consonant and consonant-dot, and currently = a whole lot of other things.

I would prefer that f= u'ivla did not introduce consonantal syllables. They were added to make= type-3 fu'ivla possible, with their CrC clusters, but that could be ea= sily managed with CyrC instead, only requiring a coda for y syllables (whic= h are not currently used outside of cmevla).

The i= nitial CCC are almost there already in lujvo, because we have lujvo like mi= spre that can easily be syllabified as mi-spre. So even though they don'= ;t occur word-initially, they are already present in the middle of words.

mu'o mi'e xorxes=C2=A0

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