Received: from mail-la0-f56.google.com ([209.85.215.56]:36088)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.80.1)
	(envelope-from <bpfk-list+bncBCRZPH6MCMII7GVBUMCRUBG5SFLLI@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1XptvK-0007J3-QL; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 23:07:04 -0800
Received: by mail-la0-f56.google.com with SMTP id gq15sf111820lab.21
        for <multiple recipients>; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 23:06:55 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
         :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to
         :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive
         :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type;
        bh=ts7LAl5bS73/T+s6oKo8hI9L61wbJ8XE9Ml0HFPOT/c=;
        b=B626Ai608lpeapWvdJLKzroT4qsD7PKMN5DnwteC+v6tAOsyVZe3Hh9Brgk9M2ER1l
         Z8wy/Zm1tD79H0G8sVbZUc3O16XcDIctJNQ8gEBduh6U5D7F7V8Rric1xQXfWUIgbNvW
         mfXLfkPQClo2pYnP+e6PsnnOsEh/fwqnOTKbKdQN/IbrLf/p7c1SxdT2vIdriw1MRtpN
         KqKtlc5kNUNJcAblsEMrAvB/ZjdwrSknXmBIXvqH8YTd2PbS0kBdLbP/Xby8riHHeqbx
         QXBXxoWKoZL9Rw9N0NYrGyVD82H8Wvr4sskPC788hfXjMomaZkFdtBMyVQRUYg6SIOF4
         RXJQ==
X-Received: by 10.180.8.202 with SMTP id t10mr75537wia.16.1416121615346;
        Sat, 15 Nov 2014 23:06:55 -0800 (PST)
X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.180.94.135 with SMTP id dc7ls603448wib.36.gmail; Sat, 15 Nov
 2014 23:06:54 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 10.180.98.165 with SMTP id ej5mr4099604wib.1.1416121614946;
        Sat, 15 Nov 2014 23:06:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-wi0-x230.google.com (mail-wi0-x230.google.com. [2a00:1450:400c:c05::230])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id r4si410957wia.0.2014.11.15.23.06.54
        for <bpfk-list@googlegroups.com>
        (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
        Sat, 15 Nov 2014 23:06:54 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::230 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::230;
Received: by mail-wi0-f176.google.com with SMTP id ex7so2907223wid.9
        for <bpfk-list@googlegroups.com>; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 23:06:54 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.194.119.230 with SMTP id kx6mr22366323wjb.80.1416121614826;
 Sat, 15 Nov 2014 23:06:54 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.194.103.65 with HTTP; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 23:06:54 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <CAO7tK2dLjF6oRnKmP_g95oyJG9ky+Z4Sn-pWsOrgvXipehXBXQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <0ECDA8252DB74B6A924A302A02D55629@gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2dfvzwANUERsaLzf+ggh4B7Kh7FFnu4VOGa8=PJRwXX8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2c-cvP6RObJ-D2mwP9GWLFHLh5C7KBRGuuTdyZbDPXbbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2c=gE8fb6AWgF=z3=UQx=oFiE86nBf9sBYAj1c0wqU5dw@mail.gmail.com>
	<2B42884AD9984C369994567E68611980@gmail.com>
	<BBAF1D8CFB81404881C8C6D1E4790DF6@gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2ebtPZM3uFwhZPPqR_auDRXOnTV4hQuh+tVxKkaxV_zQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5676AB4A25B640DEB6EE877F655D9D77@gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2fS4LZhZpMCchcjc_+RKTWuTNQ5KWHhL3eyFam0CHk8ig@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2cgPLK45DvEn1ZsAA8HD4yTdDfBxOiOCxHWcr7JsVq1Dg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7bV+j_8hPmHEMT_wq5x7tk8BwYO+Jpb-_4Gz6bzRn6Ek7CNQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2fpTcm89FYxdmyg8kqUcYpx6pkWNZOoLRszRdB1ts6eLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<5467EDB6.6010304@gmx.de>
	<CAO7tK2dLjF6oRnKmP_g95oyJG9ky+Z4Sn-pWsOrgvXipehXBXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 10:06:54 +0300
Message-ID: <CAO7bV+iC460pAJq_LGa3E8Wx6v8UH_e8p71xwd_ELvjsUh_mLg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bpfk] extended rafsi and a tosmabru/slinku'i boondoggle
From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com;       spf=pass
 (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates
 2a00:1450:400c:c05::230 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com;
       dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com;       dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com
Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <bpfk-list.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list/post>, <mailto:bpfk-list@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:bpfk-list+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list
Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list/subscribe>, <mailto:bpfk-list+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:googlegroups-manage+972099695765+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>,
 <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list/subscribe>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0115fe2ecf83d80507f4814e
X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-)
X-Spam_score: -1.9
X-Spam_score_int: -18
X-Spam_bar: -
Content-Length: 7677

--089e0115fe2ecf83d80507f4814e
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

2014-11-16 4:37 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.com>:

>
>
> On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 9:20 PM, selpa'i <seladwa@gmx.de> wrote:
>
>> la .xorxes. cu cusku di'e
>>
>>>
>>> It depends on how much you're willing to throw away. If we were to thro=
w
>>> away the whole rafsi system and start afresh, then the rules could be
>>> made much more simple.
>>>
>>
>> I would be very interested in seeing said simpler rules. If those rules
>> were not only quite-a-bit simpler, but *much* *much* simpler, then that
>> would be yet another good reason to do away with rafsi and the
>> morphological split between lujvo and zi'evla/fu'ivla.
>>
>
> Well, if we throw away rafsi but keep the look-and-feel of brivla, we can
> replace the current 35 rules that deal with brivla with just a single one=
:
> Basically something like:
>
>   brivla <- !cmevla !cmavo !h &onset unstressed-syllable+
> stressed-syllable &post-word
>
> That basically gives any valid string of syllables, with penultimate
> stress, that either start with a cluster or with a cmavo form followed by=
 a
> non-initial C/C, and ends with a vowel, Depending on how we want to go,
> y-syllables and consonantal syllables could be allowed as well or not, It=
's
> clear that all the complications of brivla morphology come from the rafsi
> system.
>
> The cmavo rule would also be slightly simplified since it wouldn't have t=
o
> deal with the CVCy-lujvo exception.
>

Yes, that's what i wanted. I dont care about the rafsi structure of brivla.
Let them remain in peg.

I just want to explain to noobs  how to detect valid brivla.
If a slinkuhi test needed then it's needed.
I'm also not against {kibpapri} since it'd be automatically assumed to be
expanded into {kibypapri}. va'i I can explain banning voiceless-voiced
clusters in a separate rule.



> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "BPFK" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
BPFK" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--089e0115fe2ecf83d80507f4814e
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">2014-11-16 4:37 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jjllambias@gmail.com=
</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0=
 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><di=
v class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><span class=3D"">On =
Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 9:20 PM, selpa&#39;i <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:seladwa@gmx.de" target=3D"_blank">seladwa@gmx.de</a>&gt;</span> wrot=
e:<br></span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;b=
order-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">la .xorxes. cu=
 cusku di&#39;e<br>
</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span><br><span class=3D"">
It depends on how much you&#39;re willing to throw away. If we were to thro=
w<br>
away the whole rafsi system and start afresh, then the rules could be<br>
made much more simple.<br>
</span></span></blockquote><span class=3D"">
<br>
I would be very interested in seeing said simpler rules. If those rules wer=
e not only quite-a-bit simpler, but *much* *much* simpler, then that would =
be yet another good reason to do away with rafsi and the morphological spli=
t between lujvo and zi&#39;evla/fu&#39;ivla.<br></span></blockquote><div><b=
r></div><div>Well, if we throw away rafsi but keep the look-and-feel of bri=
vla, we can replace the current 35 rules that deal with brivla with just a =
single one: Basically something like:</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0 brivl=
a &lt;- !cmevla !cmavo !h &amp;onset unstressed-syllable+ stressed-syllable=
 &amp;post-word</div><div><br></div><div>That basically gives any valid str=
ing of syllables, with penultimate stress, that either start with a cluster=
 or with a cmavo form followed by a non-initial C/C, and ends with a vowel,=
 Depending on how we want to go, y-syllables and consonantal syllables coul=
d be allowed as well or not, It&#39;s clear that all the complications of b=
rivla morphology come from the rafsi system.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div=
>The cmavo rule would also be slightly simplified since it wouldn&#39;t hav=
e to deal with the CVCy-lujvo exception.</div></div></div></div></blockquot=
e><div><br></div><div>Yes, that&#39;s what i wanted. I dont care about the =
rafsi structure of brivla. Let them remain in peg.</div><div><br></div><div=
>I just want to explain to noobs =C2=A0how to detect valid brivla.</div><di=
v>If a slinkuhi test needed then it&#39;s needed.</div><div>I&#39;m also no=
t against {kibpapri} since it&#39;d be automatically assumed to be expanded=
 into {kibypapri}. va&#39;i I can explain banning voiceless-voiced clusters=
 in a separate rule.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote"><span class=3D""><div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</di=
v><div><br></div></span></div></div></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=
=3D"h5">

<p></p>

-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;BPFK&quot; group.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target=3D=
"_blank">bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:bpfk-list@googlegrou=
ps.com" target=3D"_blank">bpfk-list@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list</a>.<br>
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/optout" targ=
et=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;BPFK&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">bpfk-list=
+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:bpfk-list@googlegrou=
ps.com">bpfk-list@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list">ht=
tp://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list</a>.<br />
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/optout">http=
s://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br />

--089e0115fe2ecf83d80507f4814e--