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Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 22:33:47 -0500
From: John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org>
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Subject: Re: [bpfk] camxes and syllabification in zi'evla
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Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas scripsit:

> Yes, CLL allows the 36 CCC onsets that camxes allows, plus a whole
> lot more (an infinite number in fact). CLL allows as initials
> any combination of consonants in which each CC pair is a valid
> initial, and the existence of the four affricate initials tc, ts,
> dj, dz means that indefinitely long onsets are allowed: For example
> tstststststststststststststsati would be a valid fu'ivla for CLL.

That was obviously ill-thought-out on my part.  The whole idea of CCC...
initials was added at the last minute, and should have been left out.

> camxes keeps the CLL rule but excluding the affricates from the
> combinations, and that automatically restricts it to the 36 CCC and
> nothing else.

I like this.

> (3) fu'ivla introduce CCC initials and consonantal syllables.

However, they also forbid "y" in any position: see CLL 4.7, rule 4.  The
following note "Note that consonant triples or larger clusters that are
not at the beginning of a fu'ivla can be quite flexible, as long as all
consonant pairs are permissible. There is no need to restrict fu'ivla
clusters to permissible initial pairs except at the beginning." should
be ignored: we do not want "cmacrpspspspspspspspspspspspspsa".

> (4) cmevla introduce dot-consonant and consonant-dot, and currently a
> whole lot of other things.

I think restricting cmevla to standard syllables, vocalic and
consonantal, is basically rich enough.  Indeed, it may be too flexible
in allowing V-V hiatus: "koreas." is made of valid syllables, but is
IMO unlojbanic.

Horrors like "mxysptlk." simply should not be allowed as cmevla (see
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Mxyzptlk>.)  However, we may
want to allow CyC and some coda clusters, so that "miks. .iespitlyk."
(closer to the actual English pronunciation) is permitted.

> I would prefer that fu'ivla did not introduce consonantal
> syllables. They were added to make type-3 fu'ivla possible, with their
> CrC clusters, but that could be easily managed with CyrC instead, only
> requiring a coda for y syllables (which are not currently used outside
> of cmevla).

Violates rule 4.  Consonantal syllables suck, but I think we are stuck
with them.

--=20
John Cowan          http://www.ccil.org/~cowan        cowan@ccil.org
My confusion is rapidly waxing
For XML Schema's too taxing:
I'd use DTDs / If they had local trees --
I think I best switch to RELAX NG.

--=20
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