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Subject: Re: [bpfk] BPFK Section: Non-logical Connectives
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On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:49 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
wrote:

> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Non-logical+Connectives
>
> mi joi ry. ze'a casnu lo lijda ctuca tadji
> Me and R have been discussing religious teaching methods.
>
>
> Isn't this example wrong?
>

"joi" has several different definitions. Two popular ones are:

(1) "ko'a joi ko'e" is plural and its members satisfy the predicate in
which it appears as an argument collectively.
(2) "ko'a joi ko'e" is singular, and it refers to a group whose members are
ko'a and ko'e.

There are probably other definitions. The example is perfectly fine with
(1), and I don't find it problematic with (2) either, unless for some
reason you don't want to allow a group of people as the x1 of casnu, but I
don't see why a group wouldn't be able to discuss something.


>
> What about the other two examples? Shouldn't {jo'u} or {ce} work better
> here:
>
> la .djan. joi la .pitr. cu re mei
> John and Peter are two.
>

With our current understanding of "mei", this one would go better with
definition (1) than (2).

la jegvon cu cevni le xriso joi le xebro joi le muslo
> Jehovah is the god of the Christians, the Jews and the Muslims.
>

It doesn't seem to be a problem with either definition.

I would eliminate "joi" from the language, or better make it synonymous
with "jo'u".

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:49 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gleki.is.my.name@=
gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div><a href=3D"http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Non-log=
ical+Connectives" target=3D"_blank">http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section=
%3A+Non-logical+Connectives</a><br><br>mi joi ry. ze&#39;a casnu lo lijda c=
tuca tadji</div><div>Me and R have been discussing religious teaching metho=
ds.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Isn&#39;t this example wrong?</=
div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>&quot;joi&quot; has several diff=
erent definitions. Two popular ones are:</div><div><br></div><div>(1) &quot=
;ko&#39;a joi ko&#39;e&quot; is plural and its members satisfy the predicat=
e in which it appears as an argument collectively.</div><div>(2) &quot;ko&#=
39;a joi ko&#39;e&quot; is singular, and it refers to a group whose members=
 are ko&#39;a and ko&#39;e.</div><div><br></div><div>There are probably oth=
er definitions. The example is perfectly fine with (1), and I don&#39;t fin=
d it problematic with (2) either, unless for some reason you don&#39;t want=
 to allow a group of people as the x1 of casnu, but I don&#39;t see why a g=
roup wouldn&#39;t be able to discuss something.=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0</div=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div>What a=
bout the other two examples? Shouldn&#39;t {jo&#39;u} or {ce} work better h=
ere:</div><div><br></div><div><div>la .djan. joi la .pitr. cu re mei</div><=
div>John and Peter are two.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><d=
iv>With our current understanding of &quot;mei&quot;, this one would go bet=
ter with definition (1) than (2).=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pa=
dding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div></div><div>la jegvon cu cevni le=
 xriso joi le xebro joi le muslo</div><div>Jehovah is the god of the Christ=
ians, the Jews and the Muslims.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></di=
v><div>It doesn&#39;t seem to be a problem with either definition.</div><di=
v><br></div><div>I would eliminate &quot;joi&quot; from the language, or be=
tter make it synonymous with &quot;jo&#39;u&quot;.</div><div><br></div><div=
>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes=C2=A0</div></div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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