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[2607:f470:8:64:5ea5::e]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id jw4si268611qcb.3.2014.12.11.09.48.34 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 09:48:34 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of aburka@seas.upenn.edu designates 2607:f470:8:64:5ea5::e as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f470:8:64:5ea5::e; Received: from [158.130.105.58] (SEAS313.wlan.seas.upenn.edu [158.130.105.58]) (authenticated bits=0) by fox.seas.upenn.edu (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sBBHmXGI023502 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 12:48:33 -0500 Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 12:48:34 -0500 From: Alex Burka To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Message-ID: <0CD49885474543229093E972EB1DD142@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <37B9332186E84669A81F0F30709F2B48@gmail.com> References: <5444FEBF.10200@gmx.de> <544507CD.9050608@gmail.com> <20141021000349.GM14499@mercury.ccil.org> <54461EDB.70808@gmail.com> <54490F94.60609@lojban.org> <27825508-120d-421d-beb7-498fa858f673@googlegroups.com> <20141211131615.GF5272@mercury.ccil.org> <37B9332186E84669A81F0F30709F2B48@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [bpfk] official cmavo form X-Mailer: sparrow 1.6.4 (build 1178) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5489d8f2_46111ba5_c3a6" X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5400 definitions=5800 signatures=585085 X-PP-Spam-Details: rule=add_spam_details policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 suspectscore=4 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1111160001 definitions=main-1412110171 X-Original-Sender: aburka@seas.upenn.edu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of aburka@seas.upenn.edu designates 2607:f470:8:64:5ea5::e as permitted sender) smtp.mail=aburka@seas.upenn.edu Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - Content-Length: 9789 --5489d8f2_46111ba5_c3a6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline mu'onai One more thought: along with sibilants/dentals, what about liquids?= Those are more of a problem for me: without a preceding vowel, ?{lua} is c= omes out as {lu ua} or {ly ua}. Unfortunately ?{.influenza} is in jbovlaste= .=20 mu'oja'ai=20 On Thursday, December 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Alex Burka wrote: > The preprocessor thing doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Does anyone els= e support this "dialectal variation"? We don't preprocess {ie} to {i'e}, so= I don't see the point in changing ?{jie} to {ji'e}. They're quite differen= t sounds, and moreover different syllable counts, so you'll be complecting = the stress and word segmentation rules as well as breaking audiovisual isom= orphism.=20 >=20 > As for the larger question, I don't have a very strong opinion. I lean to= wards consistency (that would be banning it or allowing it everywhere). If = we do allow it, maybe the sibilants should still be an exception for ease o= f pronunciation (I don't have trouble with ?{guaspi}, but ?{jiespi} and ?{c= iaspi} are difficult). >=20 > So if we're approval-voting: 1.1.2 + 2. But I'm open to being convinced o= therwise. >=20 > mu'o mi'e la durkavore=20 >=20 > On Thursday, December 11, 2014 at 8:41 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > 2014-12-11 16:16 GMT+03:00 John Cowan : > > > Gleki Arxokuna scripsit: > > >=20 > > > > I vote for this. + I prefer it to be just a synonym (dialect variat= ion of > > > > the same sequence but with a {'} inside. co'o zo guaspi > > >=20 > > > I can live with this, but I'd prefer to ban it altogether. > >=20 > > It depends on in what way should it be banned.=20 > > I vote for banning it from the formal grammar however, I vote for the p= reprocessor to be able to autocorrect {jie} back to {ji'e}. Speech recognit= ion must be able to recognize both variants. > >=20 > > >=20 > > > -- > > > John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org = (mailto:cowan@ccil.org) > > > Clear? Huh! Why a four-year-old child could understand this report. > > > Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head or tail > > > out of it. --Rufus T. Firefly on government reports > > >=20 > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gr= oups "BPFK" group. > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, sen= d an email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com (mailto:bpfk-list%2Bun= subscribe@googlegroups.com). > > > To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com (mail= to:bpfk-list@googlegroups.com). > > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > >=20 > > --=20 > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps "BPFK" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send = an email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com (mailto:bpfk-list+unsubs= cribe@googlegroups.com). > > To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com (mailto= :bpfk-list@googlegroups.com). > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >=20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= BPFK" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --5489d8f2_46111ba5_c3a6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
mu'onai One more thought: along with sibilants/dentals,= what about liquids? Those are more of a problem for me: without a precedin= g vowel, ?{lua} is comes out as {lu ua} or {ly ua}. Unfortunately ?{.influe= nza} is in jbovlaste.

mu'oja'ai
=20

On Thursday, December 11, 2014= at 11:30 AM, Alex Burka wrote:

The preprocessor thing doesn't make a ton of sense to m= e. Does anyone else support this "dialectal variation"? We don't preprocess= {ie} to {i'e}, so I don't see the point in changing ?{jie} to {ji'e}. They= 're quite different sounds, and moreover different syllable counts, so you'= ll be complecting the stress and word segmentation rules as well as breakin= g audiovisual isomorphism.

As for the larger question, I don= 't have a very strong opinion. I lean towards consistency (that would be ba= nning it or allowing it everywhere). If we do allow it, maybe the sibilants= should still be an exception for ease of pronunciation (I don't have troub= le with ?{guaspi}, but ?{jiespi} and ?{ciaspi} are difficult).
So if we're approval-voting: 1.1.2 + 2. But I'm open to being = convinced otherwise.

mu'o mi'e la durkavore
=20 =20

On Thursday, December 11, 2014= at 8:41 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:



2014= -12-11 16:16 GMT+03:00 John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org>:
Gleki Arxokuna scripsit:

> I vote for this. + I prefer it to be just a synonym (dialect variation= of
> the same sequence but with a {'} inside. co'o zo guaspi

I can live with this, but I'd prefer to ban it altogether.
=

It depends on in what way should it be ban= ned. 
I vote for banning it from the formal grammar however,= I vote for the preprocessor to be able to autocorrect {jie} back to {ji'e}= . Speech recognition must be able to recognize both variants.

--
John Cowan          http://www.ccil.org/~cowan    &nbs= p;   cowan@ccil.org
Clear?  Huh!  Why a four-year-old child could understand t= his report.
Run out and find me a four-year-old child.  I can't make head or tail<= br> out of it.        --Rufus T. Firefly on government repo= rts

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=20 =20 =20 =20

=20 =20 =20 =20
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=20

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