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Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2014 11:15:55 -0500
From: Alex Burka <aburka@seas.upenn.edu>
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Subject: Re: [bpfk] official cmavo form
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Even though cultural neutrality is important, we shouldn't include phonetic=
 distinctions in Lojban just because we can find them in a natural language=
... but I suppose zifcme are a different matter. I see your point, and I ch=
anged my vote so it no longer includes (2), but I may change my mind again,=
 who knows. As for the names, I would guess:=20

[if (2) wins]
Han =3D> {.xan.}
Hu An =3D> {.xus. .an.} or {.xuuan.} or {.xu'an.}
Huan =3D> {.xuuan.} or {.xu'an.}

[if (1.3.1) or something more permissive wins]
Han =3D> {.xan.}
Hu An =3D> {.xus. .an.} or {.xuuan.} or {.xu'an.}
Huan =3D> {.xuan.} or {.xuuan.} or {.xu'an.}

So there are still options (some more attractive than others) either way.

mu'o mi'e la durkavore=20


On Thursday, December 18, 2014 at 8:57 PM, guskant wrote:

> This is reminder and interim report.
>=20
> The poll will be closed on 2014-12-27 at 0:00 UTC (it might be a few hour=
s later depending on my connection to the Internet.)
>=20
> http://goo.gl/forms/5KbiK5yBky
>=20
>=20
> Currently, "2. disallow CgV in cmevla/fu'ivla/ma'ovla" is predominant.
>=20
> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1kJLBvjkoDpmvA9vJS_lf8SpCYAZvY4bMx1pj8uhW=
qRs/viewanalytics
>=20
>=20
>=20
> As a supporter of "1.3.1. allow CgV in cmevla, disallow it in fu'ivla/ma'=
ovla", I make a comment here:
>=20
> CgV in cmevla does not affect lexical analysis, while that in fu'ivla/ma'=
ovla does. Disallowing CgV in cmevla is very strong restriction. It affects=
 not only traditional names like {nitcion}, or popular names like {tuitr}, =
but also a standard of lojbanization of words of natural languages. CgV in =
cmevla sometimes makes things easy. For example, many Chinese names have Cg=
V-like phoneme strings. Chinese "Huan", "Han" and "Hu An" are distinguished=
 from each other. If CgV is disallowed in cmevla, it will be difficult to f=
ind out a reasonable standard of lojbanization of them.
>=20
> mu'o=20
>=20
> --=20
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                <div>Even though cultural neutrality is important, we shoul=
dn't include phonetic distinctions in Lojban just because we can find them =
in a natural language... but I suppose zifcme are a different matter. I see=
 your point, and I changed my vote so it no longer includes (2), but I may =
change my mind again, who knows. As for the names, I would guess:
                </div><div><br></div><div>[if (2) wins]</div><div>Han =3D&g=
t; {.xan.}</div><div>Hu An =3D&gt; {.xus. .an.} or {.xuuan.} or {.xu'an.}</=
div><div>Huan =3D&gt; {.xuuan.} or {.xu'an.}</div><div><br></div><div>[if (=
1.3.1) or something more permissive wins]</div><div>Han =3D&gt; {.xan.}</di=
v><div>Hu An =3D&gt; {.xus. .an.} or {.xuuan.} or {.xu'an.}</div><div>Huan =
=3D&gt; {.xuan.} or {.xuuan.} or {.xu'an.}</div><div><br></div><div>So ther=
e are still options (some more attractive than others) either way.</div><di=
v><br></div><div>mu'o mi'e la durkavore</div>
                <div></div>
                =20
                <p style=3D"color: #A0A0A8;">On Thursday, December 18, 2014=
 at 8:57 PM, guskant wrote:</p>
                <blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"border-left-style:solid;=
border-width:1px;margin-left:0px;padding-left:10px;">
                    <span><div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>This is reminder =
and interim report.</div><div><br></div><div>The poll will be closed on 201=
4-12-27 at 0:00 UTC (it might be a few hours later depending on my connecti=
on to the Internet.)</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"http://goo.gl/form=
s/5KbiK5yBky">http://goo.gl/forms/5KbiK5yBky</a></div><div><br></div><div><=
br></div><div>Currently, "2. disallow CgV in cmevla/fu'ivla/ma'ovla" is pre=
dominant.</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://docs.google.com/forms=
/d/1kJLBvjkoDpmvA9vJS_lf8SpCYAZvY4bMx1pj8uhWqRs/viewanalytics">https://docs=
.google.com/forms/d/1kJLBvjkoDpmvA9vJS_lf8SpCYAZvY4bMx1pj8uhWqRs/viewanalyt=
ics</a></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>As a support=
er of "1.3.1. allow CgV in cmevla, disallow it in fu'ivla/ma'ovla", I make =
a comment here:</div><div><br></div><div>CgV in cmevla does not affect lexi=
cal analysis, while that in fu'ivla/ma'ovla does. Disallowing CgV in cmevla=
 is very strong restriction. It affects not only traditional names like {ni=
tcion}, or popular names like {tuitr}, but also a standard of lojbanization=
 of words of natural languages. CgV in cmevla sometimes makes things easy. =
For example, many Chinese names have CgV-like phoneme strings. Chinese "Hua=
n", "Han" and "Hu An" are distinguished from each other. If CgV is disallow=
ed in cmevla, it will be difficult to find out a reasonable standard of loj=
banization of them.</div><div><br></div><div>mu'o</div></div>

<p></p>

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</div></div></span>
                =20
                =20
                =20
                =20
                </blockquote>
                =20
                <div>
                    <br>
                </div>
           =20

<p></p>

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