Received: from mail-yh0-f55.google.com ([209.85.213.55]:36971) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Y24PG-0001Ef-PZ; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 12:44:23 -0800 Received: by mail-yh0-f55.google.com with SMTP id f73sf158647yha.20; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 12:43:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=+buFkD1dmYti/wghw7cgIEW90SQoFlYsmp6ni62YCIo=; b=a8M0RB6QQVtn9E1exTz1s0xM1CFYcegX60UFu7DhKIiDHcZRTuZLTb3AqQe8M3tiV5 TntJOSOA5c/jNBH0RyYal3M3UNxWxhPZRlQWyCTiQfsSH6kY/r/QasQYIJ9iaqPjO3VU VHJgxMTdemTGJ5KF5wCzm12RLvUpKA2MW7ZXYlSQLEE+twVRXg9UixWuwqX/o6Ecjbe7 sSQX7EAWSzl2tmgSXd/zNdIS7jlchlWaP79t/bzW701BslVyYZPVjFGUCXxc/41VQeHZ VLH3YuFGJWkLy7VkcSth926NuZyc7ugGh+h89VoVTVM4pCzhb+wQDEP44RIDHDnsgJMW 5roA== X-Received: by 10.50.154.72 with SMTP id vm8mr84527igb.2.1419021838846; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 12:43:58 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.66.131 with SMTP id f3ls333031igt.9.gmail; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 12:43:58 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.66.161.40 with SMTP id xp8mr7531672pab.33.1419021838710; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 12:43:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.224.214.72 with SMTP id gz8msqab; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 12:34:08 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.140.84.170 with SMTP id l39mr24523qgd.33.1419021248093; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 12:34:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2014 12:34:07 -0800 (PST) From: maikxlx@gmail.com To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <548AC3CB.7090403@gmx.de> <580B9AB84B34485AB4139B921C46CF42@gmail.com> <3ED463A548E74A53BD8F2ECEF0C620F8@gmail.com> <14FDADF47D7841A39D612894E81CC89B@gmail.com> <20141214025736.GB19927@mercury.ccil.org> <20141214190350.GD29313@mercury.ccil.org> <5660b66f-68e1-4e9c-b4ce-1713a7bf1491@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [bpfk] official cmavo form MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_908_1572861192.1419021247739" X-Original-Sender: maikxlx@gmail.com Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - Content-Length: 6950 ------=_Part_908_1572861192.1419021247739 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_909_1701843021.1419021247739" ------=_Part_909_1701843021.1419021247739 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hello BPFK, I am delurking to inform you that I voted for 1.3.1 (allow CGV in cmevla, disallow it in fu'ivla/ma'ovla). Feel free to disregard my (non-member) vote if you wish. My vote comes with the qualification that the special GV cases /ii/ and /uu/ be made illegal (as others have suggested). With all respect, it strikes me as perverse to be seriously considering whacking harmless syllables like /miu/ and /kua/ from cmevla when sequences like /lei/, /leii/, /leiii/ and /leiiii/ are all legal and contrastive, as are presumably /u'u/, /uu'u/, /u'uu/, etc. Correct me if I am wrong, but the only two common words that contain these pairs are {.ii} and {.uu}. I would suggest replacing these with {.iai} and {.uau}, but they can also be grandfathered in as (the only) exceptions. Unless there is something that I have overlooked, removing /ii/ & /uu/ from the language seems so sensible and harmless that I would suggest that the BPFK drop the gavel and make it so prior to deciding the broader GV issue. Once /ii/ & /uu/ are removed, then the monosyllabic and glided disyllabic realizations of any diphthong could be in free variation. So /ia/ could be realized as either [ja] or [ija]. I would also advocate the following: - forbid GV in fu'ivla/ma'ovla except after /./ (word-initially). The pronunciation of disyllabic /ia/ and that of /i'a/ are too close. - allow GV in cmevla. there would be no hard rules on realization, but these might be regarded as suggested guidelines: - pronounce /iV/ monosyllabic after onset /p b f v m k g x ./ - pronounce /uV/ monosyllabic after onset /t d s z c j k g x ./ - if preceding C could be part of a valid coda, then the following GV is initial and therefore monosyllabic. e.g. {.sonias.} = /.son,ias./ for Sonya. - disyllabic elsewhere - I don't see a problem with /eu/ and /ou/ in cmevla. If /ii/ and /uu/ were gone, then these could be pronounced [ewu] and [owu], just as /ei/ could be pronounced [eji]. - forbid /'/ adjacent to ANY underlying glide in ALL words. If /'/ is [h], then /poi'i/ sounds just like /poixi/. Perhaps /poi'i/ could be replaced with /po'ei/. This rule wouldn't solve all problems with /'/, but it would help. Best regards, -Mike S. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BPFK" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_909_1701843021.1419021247739 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello BPFK, 

I am delurking to inform you tha= t I voted for 1.3.1 (allow CGV in cmevla, d= isallow it in fu'ivla/ma'ovla).  Feel free to disregard my (non= -member) vote if you wish.

My vote comes with the qualification that the special GV cases /ii/ and=20 /uu/ be made illegal (as others have suggested).  With all respect, it= strikes me as perverse to be seriously considering whacking harmless sylla= bles like /miu/ and /kua/ from cmevla when sequences like /lei/, /leii/, = /leiii/ and /leiiii/ are all legal and contrastive, as are presumably /u'u/= , /uu'u/, /u'uu/, etc.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the only two co= mmon words that contain these pairs are {.ii} and {.uu}.  I=20 would suggest replacing these with {.iai} and {.uau}, but they can also=20 be grandfathered in as (the only) exceptions.  Unless there is=20 something that I have overlooked, removing /ii/ & /uu/ from the languag= e seems so=20 sensible and harmless that I would suggest that the BPFK drop the gavel and= make it so=20 prior to deciding the broader GV issue. 

Once /ii/ &=20 /uu/ are removed, then the monosyllabic and glided disyllabic=20 realizations of any diphthong could be in free variation.  So /ia/ cou= ld be realized as either [ja] or [ija].

I would also=20 advocate the following:

- forbid GV in fu'ivla/ma'ovla except after /./ (word-initially).  The pron= unciation of disyllabic /ia/ and that of /i'a/ are too close.

- allo= w GV in cmevla.  there would be no har= d rules on realization, but these might be regarded as suggested guidelines= :
  - pronounce /iV/ monosyllabic after onset /p b f v m k g x ./ =  
  - pronounce /uV/ monosyllabic after onset /t d s z c= j k g x ./
  - if preceding C could be part of a valid coda, then= the following GV is initial and therefore monosyllabic.  e.g. {.sonia= s.} =3D /.son,ias./ for Sonya.
  - disyllabic elsewhe= re
 
- I don't see a problem with /eu/ and /ou/ in cmevla.&nbs= p; If /ii/ and /uu/ were gone, then these could be pronounced [ewu] and [ow= u], just as /ei/ could be pronounced [eji].

- forbid /'/ adjacent to= ANY underlying glide in ALL words.  If /'/ is [h], then /poi'i/ sound= s just like /poixi/.  Perhaps /poi'i/ could be replaced with /po'ei/.&= nbsp; This rule wouldn't solve all problems with /'/, but it would help.
Best regards,
-Mike S.










 

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