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Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2014 20:53:20 -0500
From: John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org>
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Subject: Re: [bpfk] official cmavo form
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maikxlx@gmail.com scripsit:

> This is bad for /u/, because fricativizing the /u/-glide will make  
> it sound much like /v/.  Not many natural languages have a /w/-/v/  
> distinction to begin with, and the needless presence of /uu/ in the 
> language makes that distinction tougher.                            

The reason /wu/ works well in English is that for the last sixty years
/u/ has been moving forward in all or most accents, whereas /w/ has
remained fully back.  Consequently, even the semivowel pronunciation of
/w/ won't blend into the following /u/.

> On the other hand, I have heard at least one English speaker pronounce
> "yeast" exactly like "east", removing the glide.

Indeed, the English expression "donkey's years", meaning "a very long
time", derives from a dialect (possibly Sussex) in which "ear" and
"year" are homophones.  The idea is that a long time is compared to a
donkey's ears in length.

> In light of such examples, IMHO it would be far more sensible to
> remove /ii/ and /uu/, allowing /i/ and /u/ to remain _vowels_ or
> _semivowels_ in all positions, and also allowing diphthongs to be
> "drawled" into two syllables by speakers who have trouble with them.

I agree, though I also agree that we are stuck with the words "ii" and
"uu".  In Loglan there are also "aa", "ee", and "oo", though there are
constraints on these: one of the two vowels *must* bear the stress.  In
addition, they cannot appear in fu'ivla, and "ee" and "oo" are rare (and
I hope will stay that way).

-- 
John Cowan          http://www.ccil.org/~cowan        cowan@ccil.org
First known example of political correctness: After Nurhachi had united
all the other Jurchen tribes under the leadership of the Manchus, his
successor Abahai (1592-1643) issued an order that the name Jurchen should
be banned, and from then on, they were all to be called Manchus.
                --S. Robert Ramsey, The Languages of China

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