Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c04::22d as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4010:c04::22d;
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <5499F18D.1010209@gmail.com>
References: <5499F18D.1010209@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2014 20:43:46 -0300
Message-ID: <CAO7tK2cKTzX3+RcuiZSs-=69O0NbGotGX0e6BfzW4xS7v-KuDA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bpfk] pi PA [sumti]
From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11346420fbc8a0050aeabef7
Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com
Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
X-Spam_score: -1.9
X-Spam_score_int: -18
X-Spam_bar: -
Content-Length: 6369

--001a11346420fbc8a0050aeabef7
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 7:49 PM, Ilmen <ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com> wrote:

>  =E2=80=A2 http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section:+gadri
>
>   piPA *[sumti]*  =3D  lo piPA si'e be pa me *[sumti]*
> =E2=80=A2 http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Numeric+selbri
>
>   *cmavo: si'e (MOI)*
> *Proposed Definition*
>
> Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit.
> The place structure in the case of a number is *"x1 is/are a *[number]*th
> of x2"*. In general for any sumti the place structure is *"x1 is a
> part/fraction of x2, quantified by *[number/lerfu/sumti]*"*.
> Isn't there a contradiction between the proposed expansion for {pi PA
> [sumti]} and the definition of {si'e}?
> Shouldn't the former be {*pi PA* [sumti] =3D lo *me li pa fe'i PA me'u*
> si'e be...}, or something like that?
>

The definitions are horribly worded, but "pi mu" is supposed to be one
half, or five tenths, not one fifth, and "pi mu si'e" is like "xadba".


> Besides, isn't it weird that {pi ro ko'a} has a different meaning from {p=
a
> ko'a}?
>

"pi ro ko'a" ("the whole of ko'a") only really makes sense when ko'a is one
(and if ko'a happen to be many I think "pi ro" forces a one group
interpretation so that a whole can make sense. OTOH, "pa ko'a" ("one of
ko'a") only really makes sense when ko'a are more than one, and it's weird
if not meaningless when ko'a is one. I would say that when ko'a is one, "pa
ko'a" forces a multiplication of ko'a into instances or such.

A better definition for "pi PA ko'a" might be something like "lo pi PA si'e
be ko'a noi pi ro ke'a pa mei"

mu'o mi'e xorxes

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
BPFK" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--001a11346420fbc8a0050aeabef7
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 7:49 PM, Ilmen <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com</a>&=
gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 =
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
 =20

   =20
 =20
  <div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
    =E2=80=A2 <a href=3D"http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section:+gadri" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section:+gadri</a><br>
    <br>
    <table style=3D"border:solid 1px black;background-color:#aaeeaa" cellpa=
dding=3D"2">
      <tbody>
        <tr>
          <td>piPA <em>[sumti]</em>=C2=A0 =3D=C2=A0 lo piPA si&#39;e be pa =
me <em>[sumti]</em></td>
        </tr>
      </tbody>
    </table>
    <br>
    =E2=80=A2 <a href=3D"http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Numeric=
+selbri" target=3D"_blank">http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Numer=
ic+selbri</a><br>
    <br>
    <table style=3D"border:solid 1px black;background-color:#aaeeaa" cellpa=
dding=3D"2">
      <tbody>
        <tr>
          <td><b>cmavo: si&#39;e (MOI)</b><b><br>
            </b><b>Proposed Definition</b><br>
            <br>
            Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a
            tanru-unit. The place structure in the case of a number is <em>=
&quot;x1
              is/are a </em>[number]<em>th of x2&quot;</em>. In general for
            any sumti the place structure is <em>&quot;x1 is a part/fractio=
n
              of x2, quantified by </em>[number/lerfu/sumti]<em>&quot;</em>=
.
            <em></em></td>
        </tr>
      </tbody>
    </table>
    <br>
    Isn&#39;t there a contradiction between the proposed expansion for {pi
    PA [sumti]} and the definition of {si&#39;e}?<br>
    Shouldn&#39;t the former be {<u>pi PA</u> [sumti] =3D lo <u>me li pa fe=
&#39;i
      PA me&#39;u</u> si&#39;e be...}, or something like that?<br></div></b=
lockquote><div><br></div><div>The definitions are horribly worded, but &quo=
t;pi mu&quot; is supposed to be one half, or five tenths, not one fifth, an=
d &quot;pi mu si&#39;e&quot; is like &quot;xadba&quot;.=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=
=A0=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=
=3D"#FFFFFF">
    Besides, isn&#39;t it weird that {pi ro ko&#39;a} has a different meani=
ng
    from {pa ko&#39;a}?<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>&quot;pi =
ro ko&#39;a&quot; (&quot;the whole of ko&#39;a&quot;) only really makes sen=
se when ko&#39;a is one (and if ko&#39;a happen to be many I think &quot;pi=
 ro&quot; forces a one group interpretation so that a whole can make sense.=
 OTOH, &quot;pa ko&#39;a&quot; (&quot;one of ko&#39;a&quot;) only really ma=
kes sense when ko&#39;a are more than one, and it&#39;s weird if not meanin=
gless when ko&#39;a is one. I would say that when ko&#39;a is one, &quot;pa=
 ko&#39;a&quot; forces a multiplication of ko&#39;a into instances or such.=
=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>A better definition for &quot;pi PA ko&#39;=
a&quot; might be something like &quot;lo pi PA si&#39;e be ko&#39;a noi pi =
ro ke&#39;a pa mei&quot;</div><div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes<=
/div><div><br></div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;BPFK&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">bpfk-list=
+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:bpfk-list@googlegrou=
ps.com">bpfk-list@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list">ht=
tp://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list</a>.<br />
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/optout">http=
s://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br />

--001a11346420fbc8a0050aeabef7--