Received: from mail-wi0-f186.google.com ([209.85.212.186]:56909) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Xz832-00037b-2t; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:01:13 -0800 Received: by mail-wi0-f186.google.com with SMTP id l15sf5572wiw.23 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:01:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=3GFo63mj7nxF68S0446aqeOD9E3RMLLyLMMZ3YeUo8g=; b=pMmBxDPyykUZGPqfgWknvYBuXl/uSdmicKYi8ILfdNT6SZ4Ds3XtvDJ7jxnR83gZj5 mAVUA1T0jJeh/FpkqummeinPPUkGmW4zejDTb2/iDY925oFJG4hZF8qILrZt0WYHX9A8 Mh5vG+Q9LPYD8RptO3Qxs/GNINsphSszUF1tUSz2xnMPwt35ncyJirSOfnvzdm1rFGrN So5zLMrUbvOEhG8xdrIzrf/D8QvyYv67n8vPZysNkVmmlXyKSmEn30E9lOhI4u384/vw DqeZuT8A4EOihtG9CHv+Gnp3xZhXOiS6HmlpUM3fkV1yuDknKPK7ykbwXJajuLu8w+Xv 7x9w== X-Received: by 10.152.203.161 with SMTP id kr1mr42242lac.8.1418320860859; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:01:00 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.152.116.14 with SMTP id js14ls346122lab.69.gmail; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:01:00 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.55.10 with SMTP id n10mr514660lbp.14.1418320860200; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:01:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wi0-x22b.google.com (mail-wi0-x22b.google.com. [2a00:1450:400c:c05::22b]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id by17si6185wib.3.2014.12.11.10.01.00 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:01:00 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::22b as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::22b; Received: by mail-wi0-f171.google.com with SMTP id bs8so126130wib.4 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:01:00 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.194.110.69 with SMTP id hy5mr19295989wjb.121.1418320859779; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:00:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.87.229 with HTTP; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:00:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <37B9332186E84669A81F0F30709F2B48@gmail.com> References: <5444FEBF.10200@gmx.de> <544507CD.9050608@gmail.com> <20141021000349.GM14499@mercury.ccil.org> <54461EDB.70808@gmail.com> <54490F94.60609@lojban.org> <27825508-120d-421d-beb7-498fa858f673@googlegroups.com> <20141211131615.GF5272@mercury.ccil.org> <37B9332186E84669A81F0F30709F2B48@gmail.com> From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 21:00:38 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bpfk] official cmavo form To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e010d867a0658120509f48f12 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::22b as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - Content-Length: 10316 --089e010d867a0658120509f48f12 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 There wasnt any reasonable consistency and there isnt. Take {mz} but {nz}, {ms} and {ns}. 2014-12-11 19:30 GMT+03:00 Alex Burka : > The preprocessor thing doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Does anyone > else support this "dialectal variation"? We don't preprocess {ie} to {i'e}, > so I don't see the point in changing ?{jie} to {ji'e}. They're quite > different sounds, and moreover different syllable counts, so you'll be > complecting the stress and word segmentation rules as well as breaking > audiovisual isomorphism. > > As for the larger question, I don't have a very strong opinion. I lean > towards consistency (that would be banning it or allowing it everywhere). > If we do allow it, maybe the sibilants should still be an exception for > ease of pronunciation (I don't have trouble with ?{guaspi}, but ?{jiespi} > and ?{ciaspi} are difficult). > > So if we're approval-voting: 1.1.2 + 2. But I'm open to being convinced > otherwise. > > mu'o mi'e la durkavore > > On Thursday, December 11, 2014 at 8:41 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > > > > 2014-12-11 16:16 GMT+03:00 John Cowan : > > Gleki Arxokuna scripsit: > > > I vote for this. + I prefer it to be just a synonym (dialect variation of > > the same sequence but with a {'} inside. co'o zo guaspi > > I can live with this, but I'd prefer to ban it altogether. > > > It depends on in what way should it be banned. > I vote for banning it from the formal grammar however, I vote for the > preprocessor to be able to autocorrect {jie} back to {ji'e}. Speech > recognition must be able to recognize both variants. > > > -- > John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org > Clear? Huh! Why a four-year-old child could understand this report. > Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head or tail > out of it. --Rufus T. Firefly on government reports > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "BPFK" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "BPFK" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "BPFK" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BPFK" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --089e010d867a0658120509f48f12 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
There wasnt any reasonable consistency and there isnt. Tak= e {mz} but {nz}, {ms} and {ns}.

2014-12-11 19:30 GMT+03:00 Alex Burka <aburka@seas= .upenn.edu>:
The preprocessor thing doesn't make a ton of sense = to me. Does anyone else support this "dialectal variation"? We do= n't preprocess {ie} to {i'e}, so I don't see the point in chang= ing ?{jie} to {ji'e}. They're quite different sounds, and moreover = different syllable counts, so you'll be complecting the stress and word= segmentation rules as well as breaking audiovisual isomorphism.

As for the larger question, I don= 't have a very strong opinion. I lean towards consistency (that would b= e banning it or allowing it everywhere). If we do allow it, maybe the sibil= ants should still be an exception for ease of pronunciation (I don't ha= ve trouble with ?{guaspi}, but ?{jiespi} and ?{ciaspi} are difficult).

So if we're approval-voting: 1.1.2 + 2. But I'= m open to being convinced otherwise.

mu'o mi&#= 39;e la durkavore
=20

On Thursday, December 11, 2014 a= t 8:41 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:



2014= -12-11 16:16 GMT+03:00 John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org>:
Gleki Arxokuna scripsit:

> I vote for this. + I prefer it to be just a synonym (dialect variation= of
> the same sequence but with a {'} inside. co'o zo guaspi

I can live with this, but I'd prefer to ban it altogether.

It depends on in what way should it be= banned.=C2=A0
I vote for banning it from the formal grammar howe= ver, I vote for the preprocessor to be able to autocorrect {jie} back to {j= i'e}. Speech recognition must be able to recognize both variants.
=


--
John Cowan=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 http://www.ccil.org/~cowan=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 cowan@ccil.o= rg
Clear?=C2=A0 Huh!=C2=A0 Why a four-year-old child could understand t= his report.
Run out and find me a four-year-old child.=C2=A0 I can't make head or t= ail
out of it.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --Rufus T. Firefly on government repo= rts

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=20 =20 =20 =20
=20

=20

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