Received: from mail-wi0-f187.google.com ([209.85.212.187]:49738) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Xz854-0003BV-BT; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:03:16 -0800 Received: by mail-wi0-f187.google.com with SMTP id bs8sf6017wib.14 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:03:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=G9wly8SkuQQtJJ0SqWfun78pnyEGFAF+LgzG7devphw=; b=bv9jacSILnsTOBXuiFvO9AQ1wAGa6gO6qKWWhas9AgAsEWyEHtXKlR9wV5t+nrWm2i Cdh6NMxBprEtPqkLjh1Rdp0gwVtLhrz/YvZ9t1PKnnnHmAZeoglMuLmmz3cVpjc8d1SO n/KMOFvqV70EJGsPvdSiZyBC+7rlXbqI9k+N4wh6Emucn0eqcs5jbMCNCDhhqR1Ssa06 zb+42zDugdFl8SBgsWNFgu5xdcspu3G+amlER7fyvkX2IL1+So/9wihTL0An4yV35SKD c6at5XX3OEQ0U5gyNJ3cIpiaUCXa7jf2ihUd2me2M9+R+ac1EQiA9XzOZ0vRQ3jlICGq POyg== X-Received: by 10.152.27.166 with SMTP id u6mr252238lag.0.1418320987677; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:03:07 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.152.29.37 with SMTP id g5ls319196lah.102.gmail; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:03:07 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.112.142.36 with SMTP id rt4mr1885855lbb.3.1418320987120; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:03:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wg0-x22f.google.com (mail-wg0-x22f.google.com. [2a00:1450:400c:c00::22f]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h10si5011wiw.2.2014.12.11.10.03.07 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:03:07 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22f as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::22f; Received: by mail-wg0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id n12so7139442wgh.34 for ; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:03:07 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.194.110.69 with SMTP id hy5mr19314673wjb.121.1418320985903; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:03:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.87.229 with HTTP; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 10:02:44 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <0CD49885474543229093E972EB1DD142@gmail.com> References: <5444FEBF.10200@gmx.de> <544507CD.9050608@gmail.com> <20141021000349.GM14499@mercury.ccil.org> <54461EDB.70808@gmail.com> <54490F94.60609@lojban.org> <27825508-120d-421d-beb7-498fa858f673@googlegroups.com> <20141211131615.GF5272@mercury.ccil.org> <37B9332186E84669A81F0F30709F2B48@gmail.com> <0CD49885474543229093E972EB1DD142@gmail.com> From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 21:02:44 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bpfk] official cmavo form To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e010d867a8ad8730509f496d4 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22f as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - Content-Length: 11506 --089e010d867a8ad8730509f496d4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 This will be {influ'enza} and for me {influenza} will be an acceptable pronunciation. Just like {klamygau} is the same as {klagau} 2014-12-11 20:48 GMT+03:00 Alex Burka : > mu'onai One more thought: along with sibilants/dentals, what about > liquids? Those are more of a problem for me: without a preceding vowel, > ?{lua} is comes out as {lu ua} or {ly ua}. Unfortunately ?{.influenza} is > in jbovlaste. > > mu'oja'ai > > On Thursday, December 11, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Alex Burka wrote: > > The preprocessor thing doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Does anyone > else support this "dialectal variation"? We don't preprocess {ie} to {i'e}, > so I don't see the point in changing ?{jie} to {ji'e}. They're quite > different sounds, and moreover different syllable counts, so you'll be > complecting the stress and word segmentation rules as well as breaking > audiovisual isomorphism. > > As for the larger question, I don't have a very strong opinion. I lean > towards consistency (that would be banning it or allowing it everywhere). > If we do allow it, maybe the sibilants should still be an exception for > ease of pronunciation (I don't have trouble with ?{guaspi}, but ?{jiespi} > and ?{ciaspi} are difficult). > > So if we're approval-voting: 1.1.2 + 2. But I'm open to being convinced > otherwise. > > mu'o mi'e la durkavore > > On Thursday, December 11, 2014 at 8:41 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > > > > 2014-12-11 16:16 GMT+03:00 John Cowan : > > Gleki Arxokuna scripsit: > > > I vote for this. + I prefer it to be just a synonym (dialect variation of > > the same sequence but with a {'} inside. co'o zo guaspi > > I can live with this, but I'd prefer to ban it altogether. > > > It depends on in what way should it be banned. > I vote for banning it from the formal grammar however, I vote for the > preprocessor to be able to autocorrect {jie} back to {ji'e}. Speech > recognition must be able to recognize both variants. > > > -- > John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan@ccil.org > Clear? Huh! Why a four-year-old child could understand this report. > Run out and find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head or tail > out of it. --Rufus T. Firefly on government reports > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "BPFK" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "BPFK" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "BPFK" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BPFK" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --089e010d867a8ad8730509f496d4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This will be {influ'enza} and for me {influenza} will = be an acceptable pronunciation.
Just like {klamygau} is the same as {kl= agau}

= 2014-12-11 20:48 GMT+03:00 Alex Burka <aburka@seas.upenn.edu>:
mu'onai One more thought: along with sibilants/dent= als, what about liquids? Those are more of a problem for me: without a prec= eding vowel, ?{lua} is comes out as {lu ua} or {ly ua}. Unfortunately ?{.in= fluenza} is in jbovlaste.

mu'oja'ai
=20

On Thursday, December 11, 2014 a= t 11:30 AM, Alex Burka wrote:

The preprocessor thing doesn't make a ton of sense = to me. Does anyone else support this "dialectal variation"? We do= n't preprocess {ie} to {i'e}, so I don't see the point in chang= ing ?{jie} to {ji'e}. They're quite different sounds, and moreover = different syllable counts, so you'll be complecting the stress and word= segmentation rules as well as breaking audiovisual isomorphism.

As for the larger question, I don= 't have a very strong opinion. I lean towards consistency (that would b= e banning it or allowing it everywhere). If we do allow it, maybe the sibil= ants should still be an exception for ease of pronunciation (I don't ha= ve trouble with ?{guaspi}, but ?{jiespi} and ?{ciaspi} are difficult).

So if we're approval-voting: 1.1.2 + 2. But I'= m open to being convinced otherwise.

mu'o mi&#= 39;e la durkavore
=20 =20

On Thursday, December 11, 2014 a= t 8:41 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:



2014= -12-11 16:16 GMT+03:00 John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org>:
Gleki Arxokuna scripsit:

> I vote for this. + I prefer it to be just a synonym (dialect variation= of
> the same sequence but with a {'} inside. co'o zo guaspi

I can live with this, but I'd prefer to ban it altogether.

It depends on in what way should it be= banned.=C2=A0
I vote for banning it from the formal grammar howe= ver, I vote for the preprocessor to be able to autocorrect {jie} back to {j= i'e}. Speech recognition must be able to recognize both variants.
=


--
John Cowan=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 http://www.ccil.org/~cowan=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 cowan@ccil.o= rg
Clear?=C2=A0 Huh!=C2=A0 Why a four-year-old child could understand t= his report.
Run out and find me a four-year-old child.=C2=A0 I can't make head or t= ail
out of it.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --Rufus T. Firefly on government repo= rts

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=20 =20 =20 =20

=20 =20 =20 =20
=20

=20

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