Received: from mail-wi0-f186.google.com ([209.85.212.186]:41366)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.80.1)
	(envelope-from <bpfk-list+bncBDNZFNNFVAHRBZ62WOSAKGQEVCYMVXA@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1XzyMa-00031o-Sj; Sat, 13 Dec 2014 17:52:50 -0800
Received: by mail-wi0-f186.google.com with SMTP id l15sf298402wiw.23
        for <multiple recipients>; Sat, 13 Dec 2014 17:52:39 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
         :content-type:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results
         :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help
         :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe;
        bh=ONfWIDx1dklqmExtqP1IA5PA0yTykw4o1hoHP8YWTOs=;
        b=mx+BssxdCG6GfTua4D2GCfeXznT16cWwsfHJDuhERan31LJg1b6xolGZAq0dw3F7NJ
         +cBrSAx2VyVCxFnn7zAeuMYxUkOYEdr+AWdicWzC6wLjpuijdG3moh3dmlWcJEBCEafQ
         2fW/1/lU3ZstzOxy/LYZckbEWplM0JdcUSviV+mE0OxX5Prt05qC44VEx2WpWFbUUoCl
         OvXu7gKn7L6nGTZ3Z4jeuQ/YlGEBd379S9rXBCYXOJ4gDRMb7PzAFTCjcHZUataELf/K
         hUxCXDsyo5VjcRZ25q8dKvodgJfPKguMYyxRUJ5S1cPCr/eqi/H9oZn2Yi+pg99oht69
         f0eA==
X-Received: by 10.152.246.3 with SMTP id xs3mr68973lac.5.1418521959386;
        Sat, 13 Dec 2014 17:52:39 -0800 (PST)
X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.152.19.39 with SMTP id b7ls525919lae.38.gmail; Sat, 13 Dec
 2014 17:52:38 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 10.112.154.232 with SMTP id vr8mr7012lbb.10.1418521958522;
        Sat, 13 Dec 2014 17:52:38 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-lb0-x232.google.com (mail-lb0-x232.google.com. [2a00:1450:4010:c04::232])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id mu9si532021lbc.0.2014.12.13.17.52.38
        for <bpfk-list@googlegroups.com>
        (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
        Sat, 13 Dec 2014 17:52:38 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of and.rosta@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c04::232 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4010:c04::232;
Received: by mail-lb0-f178.google.com with SMTP id f15so8530684lbj.9
        for <bpfk-list@googlegroups.com>; Sat, 13 Dec 2014 17:52:38 -0800 (PST)
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.152.87.100 with SMTP id w4mr23117414laz.71.1418521958427;
 Sat, 13 Dec 2014 17:52:38 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.114.70.212 with HTTP; Sat, 13 Dec 2014 17:52:38 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.114.70.212 with HTTP; Sat, 13 Dec 2014 17:52:38 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <14FDADF47D7841A39D612894E81CC89B@gmail.com>
References: <f9d06e26-31b2-43ac-897e-b3a21db84dad@googlegroups.com>
	<CAO7tK2eCaqLe2L7wJh7FmP2CW8BkL==jtm1nBqAbvjUbDC2syQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<5444FEBF.10200@gmx.de>
	<544507CD.9050608@gmail.com>
	<CAO7tK2cbz0jk8iax6TcQA3jLFrgoGT-SyoA_ebsJTap0hVOgoA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CACf3dP=MVcAydpRv1LMog=btQnv29EhLYtvc_PqBOHGDB-h7oA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20141021000349.GM14499@mercury.ccil.org>
	<54461EDB.70808@gmail.com>
	<54490F94.60609@lojban.org>
	<CAMKwHj2tMEK3Cnt-AFDK_mHWKKRwqxmbeBkMaMSaYbWtSUUgWw@mail.gmail.com>
	<27825508-120d-421d-beb7-498fa858f673@googlegroups.com>
	<CAO7bV+iuNpSyoJCDmn4=nE7dv7bTKj3do5pr1ykmnqu3wkYBJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO7bV+gyj0t=r4bEVgH1mVV1G54HNKnmqw37FCfakrKe+M6zpA@mail.gmail.com>
	<b3b7d9e9-570d-474a-88f0-a05dd5c1f1c8@googlegroups.com>
	<548AC3CB.7090403@gmx.de>
	<CACf3dPmTjTFDu6XSizag0N_-in_tqPjz-K4qhhhPBh2hpbAnTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<580B9AB84B34485AB4139B921C46CF42@gmail.com>
	<CACf3dPmuHy-wJDBhd=LKT3MscWiUW9S_+WH6H7Lrat-aY-YPQw@mail.gmail.com>
	<3ED463A548E74A53BD8F2ECEF0C620F8@gmail.com>
	<14FDADF47D7841A39D612894E81CC89B@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2014 01:52:38 +0000
Message-ID: <CACf3dPnh34=k0Ea78Aej+T9SUak4OdB=M-OcL5DY+1xLiPN9ow@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bpfk] official cmavo form
From: And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>
To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c365ae703168050a236186
X-Original-Sender: and.rosta@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com;       spf=pass
 (google.com: domain of and.rosta@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c04::232
 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=and.rosta@gmail.com;       dkim=pass
 header.i=@gmail.com;       dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com
Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <bpfk-list.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list/post>, <mailto:bpfk-list@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:bpfk-list+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list
Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list/subscribe>, <mailto:bpfk-list+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:googlegroups-manage+972099695765+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>,
 <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list/subscribe>
X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-)
X-Spam_score: -1.9
X-Spam_score_int: -18
X-Spam_bar: -
Content-Length: 3563

--001a11c365ae703168050a236186
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On 12 Dec 2014 23:27, "Alex Burka" <aburka@seas.upenn.edu> wrote:
>
> I just realized you were probably using square brackets for IPA. So if I
understand correctly (relying on a Wikipedia chart here) [tuwitsku] would
be {tu uitsku}, gliding from the [u] to the [i], and [tu=CA=94itsku] is {tu
.itsku} with a pause/glottal stop in between. As I understand it Lojban is
of the opinion that [tuitsku] is indistinguishable from [tuwitsku].
>
> However, the debated ?{tuitsku} is pronounced [twitsku].

[w] is merely a necessarily-short subvariety of [u], and Lojban should not
be making phonological contrasts based on segment duration, because such
contrasts are not phonetically robust. That is, it's a bad idea for
[tuitsku] to be ambiguous between /tu witsku/ and /twitsku/, and that
ambiguity should be remedied and nullified by forbidding one of them. My
choice would be to forbid word-initial /w, y/, but since that's not an
option under consideration, it must be /twitsku/ that is declared illicit.

And

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
BPFK" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--001a11c365ae703168050a236186
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<p dir=3D"ltr"><br>
On 12 Dec 2014 23:27, &quot;Alex Burka&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:aburka@s=
eas.upenn.edu">aburka@seas.upenn.edu</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I just realized you were probably using square brackets for IPA. So if=
 I understand correctly (relying on a Wikipedia chart here) [tuwitsku] woul=
d be {tu uitsku}, gliding from the [u] to the [i], and [tu=CA=94itsku] is {=
tu .itsku} with a pause/glottal stop in between. As I understand it Lojban =
is of the opinion that [tuitsku] is indistinguishable from [tuwitsku].<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; However, the debated ?{tuitsku} is pronounced [twitsku].</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">[w] is merely a necessarily-short subvariety of [u], and Loj=
ban should not be making phonological contrasts based on segment duration, =
because such contrasts are not phonetically robust. That is, it&#39;s a bad=
 idea for [tuitsku] to be ambiguous between /tu witsku/ and /twitsku/, and =
that ambiguity should be remedied and nullified by forbidding one of them. =
My choice would be to forbid word-initial /w, y/, but since that&#39;s not =
an option under consideration, it must be /twitsku/ that is declared illici=
t.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">And</p>

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;BPFK&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">bpfk-list=
+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:bpfk-list@googlegrou=
ps.com">bpfk-list@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list">ht=
tp://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list</a>.<br />
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/optout">http=
s://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br />

--001a11c365ae703168050a236186--